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Base Antenna Dilemma

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TenSleep440

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Anyone else ever have that one issue, sure it's not that hard of a choice, but it will drive you crazy looking at all the variables when you're planning out a new antenna system for your base.

Going for the best omni antenna seems easy enough. Then you think, I could get a beam and really have fun working DX. Oh but what about the locals? back to the omni. Wait, what about a V-Quad? I could get into DX land with a aluminum antenna with a lower take off angle and a good height, maybe I could throw a BA-1 mounted horizontally up also just for good measure.

Obviously I've gotten to the point where I'm overthinking things here.

So here's the situation I'm dealing with. My elevation is 460' above sea level. I'm on top of a hill in this area, I've got a good clear shot to just about every point around me and my tower is in a clearing. Tower height is at 60', I could have gone higher but decided to see how well it all worked out just over one and a half wavelength above ground. Ground rods are sunk in a 120 degree pattern 8 foot from base off of each leg.

Coax is 7/8" lcf78-50ja hardline from Cellflex, using Commscope connectors. I've got a polyphaser inline at the base of the tower. Coax is grounded at top of tower and at bottom, as well as grounded at inlet point designated for the shack once delivered. Ground rod already in place for radio shack.

I've debated between the Maco V-Quad with a rotor, or a V5/8 omnidirectional antenna. Has anyone out there used either of these that can give a honest opinion? Maybe a M400? I won't even consider an Imax 2000 or A99, I have my reasons.

Too many desicions, I need opinions!
 

TenSleep440

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'scuse me, I made a mistake on my coax. Again with the too little sleep and going back to my broadcast time. I'm not running 7/8" on the CB side, I've got 1/2" hardline on it. 7/8" is for a different system. The rest is correct.
 

KC4RAF

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My wife's nephew bought a Maco V-Quad quite a few years back. The antenna did a pretty good job of transmitting and receiving. The problem back then was the screw were not stainless and rusted in quick time. We took the antenna down and replaced all the screws.
Over all, the Maco was a good antenna.
The rest of your tower setup sounds good.
Can't help on the V5/8 omnidirectional though.
 

prcguy

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For an omni the Hy-Gain Penetrator is king of commercially made antennas. Otherwise most CB antenna gains are complete made up fantasy lies.

When you look at Yagi type antennas that are actually engineered you will notice spacing between elements are not equal and the director to driven element might be very close together compared to the directors that are further apart and at different spacing's. Contrary to popular belief, the thing that determines the maximum gain has basically nothing to do with how many elements a Yagi has but how long the boom is and if the designer optimized the elements for that size boom. Tossing on more elements has nothing to do with more gain.

Now look at Yagi type antennas made by Maco and other CB only companies. Many of their Yagi antennas like the M108 have way too many equally spaced elements on the boom like it was a contest to see how many could fit. The gains of Maco antennas are laughable and about twice what they really are. If they state 18dB gain, its not dBd or even dBi, its really about 9dBd if even that.

So look at the Maco M108 and its claimed 18dB gain on a 40ft boom. (I'm laughing so hard now I could pee myself) Now look at an antenna made by a company that actually knows how to design an antenna and get the very most out of it. The M2 (M squared) 11M7 Yagi is optimized for the absolute most you can get in gain, its got 12.4dBi or 10.26dBd gain on a 46ft 3in boom. So how does Maco get 18dB gain on a shorter boom? Are they smarter or just a bunch of liars sawing up aluminum and taking your hard earned $$?

Maco has been selling their pure junk for a very long time so maybe in a way they are smarter. I would rather get an antenna that actually performs like its supposed to and reward the company for a good design.

For your quick perusal here is a link for the Mako specs or lies:
Maco Antenna Specifications

Here is the big 46ft M2 CB Yagi: 11M7

Here is their smaller 27ft version: 11M5DX

You'll notice they are not cheap, but they will run circles around the other junk.
prcguy
 
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KC4RAF

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Prcguy is correct about the boom length and number of elements plus spacing. In my post above, I wasn't about to recommend any yagi or other type of beam. There's a good site for helping one design and build their own yagi; And when you start running the program you'll see information about boom length and element spacing being the important factors in gain.
You can take a 9 or 10 element beam and run it against say a 3 element 'properly built' yagi and be surprised by the 3 element being much better than the 9 or 10.
As far as the Maco brand beams, the V is the only one I would buy if I HAD to. The nephew was happy with his and it did do a fairly good job for the price back then.
Properly built yagi are expensive for a reason; the spacing, element length, boom length are mathematically figured
 

prcguy

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I'm also not a fan of Yagi or directional antennas in vertical pol. The mast always interacts with the pattern and if you get into a roundtable conversation with locals you will wear out your rotor unless everyone is in the same direction.

Skip is mostly random polarized and a horizontal Yagi will benefit that in several ways from no mast interaction to a reduction of noise in the horizontal plane, etc. My ideal setup if I was heavy into CB would be a reasonable size Yagi horizontal at a multiple of 1/2 wavelength above ground. I would also use a Hy-Gain Penetrator at a 1/2 wavelength multiple for local and some DX. What else would you need?

I actually have a new Hy-Gain Penetrator and also have a couple of rare Shakespeare all fiberglass CB Yagi's in the garage rafters. One is a 3 element and the other a 4 but both were modified and cut down a little for the 10m amateur band. I also replaced the original stupid coax matching thing with a hairpin loop and super effective 1:1 choke balun on the driven element. When I had the 4 element up it made some pretty impressive low power contacts to South America and a much better signal than the omni.
prcguy
 

TenSleep440

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Atlanta, TX
I appreciate all the advice, and it’s definitely helpful. I’m still weighing the options between Omni and going horizontal. Of course I’m sure I’ll end up changing antennas many times until I figure out exactly what works best for my location. I did break out some aluminum tubing I had lying around to make my own rendition of a V-Quad, which I will mount up soon to see how it works. I may just convert it to a horizontal dipole and run that for fun as well.

As far as omni, a hy-gain penetrator is hands down a unanimous winner here? 90% of the “locals” for my area are towards the northeastern direction, which coincidentally would be the direction my beam would be aiming in most cases even with a rotor, should I go that route.
 

Voyager

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1/2" Heliax on a CB? Holy overkill Batman!

Answer: Put up a Yagi for DX and vertical for local and spotting.

The Yagi will be horizontal and the vertical well... vertical.

Best of both worlds and all cases covered.

Ooops! Just realized this is the CB forum... make the Yagi vertical, too, as most CB is vertically polarized.
 

prcguy

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I had a 500ft spool of 1/2" Andrew Heliax when I put up my current tower so everything including the CB antenna was fed with that. When I ran of of Heliax the newer antennas got various runs of LMR400, LMR500 and LMR600, which was mostly free.

I would not put up a Yagi Vertical unless everyone local to you is in one direction. You don't need vertical for skip and horizontal will give you a slight noise reduction advantage. People shooting skip in vertical will land on your antenna in a random polarization, you only need vertical for locals running vertical.
prcguy

1/2" Heliax on a CB? Holy overkill Batman!

Answer: Put up a Yagi for DX and vertical for local and spotting.

The Yagi will be horizontal and the vertical well... vertical.

Best of both worlds and all cases covered.

Ooops! Just realized this is the CB forum... make the Yagi vertical, too, as most CB is vertically polarized.
 

TenSleep440

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Location
Atlanta, TX
1/2" Heliax on a CB? Holy overkill Batman!

Answer: Put up a Yagi for DX and vertical for local and spotting.

The Yagi will be horizontal and the vertical well... vertical.

Best of both worlds and all cases covered.

Ooops! Just realized this is the CB forum... make the Yagi vertical, too, as most CB is vertically polarized.

Eh, overkill maybe on the 1/2" Heliax, but putting out more signal and having transmission line that lasts a lot longer is one of the key points I was concerned with when I chose to run that. Plus being a tech in broadcast radio got me a great deal on it lol.


I've heard a lot about less noise on the "flat side" when it comes to RX, I believe I'll end up going with a beam and just having an omni set up away from the tower on a push up pole for local work if needed.

Again, thanks for the help on this guys, I'll get some pics posted as soon as I get the antenna and everything installed. I'm surprised with the low wind load on the 11M7 honestly, I figured it would be higher.

I'm not even sure what the actual max wind load is on my tower, I've posted about it before I had erected it, and I think I may have gone a little overkill on the base and guy installation lol. I'd rather not have this thing come down at all, and figure it's better to be safe than sorry.
 

lou9155

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shamong nj
[QUOTE=TenSleep440;2905522
Ground rod already in place for radio shack.





im always curious on the way grounding is done. just to clarify is this the same ground rod used for your home electrical grounding per nec 810
 

lmrtek

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Feb 11, 2009
Messages
534
Heliax on CB??????
............
You will never see the difference between that and cheap RG8.
.............
A V quad is a fine compact beam antenna that works well with a cheap tv rotor and would easily outperform any omni.
...............
The M400 starduster is a decent antenna as omni antennas go but the Hygain super penetrator would do a much better job.
 
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