North Metro Fire loosing VHF simulcast?

In the last couple of weeks, the North Metro dispatch that was simulcast on 460.550 MHz seems to have gone silent. Can anyone confirm that this is a real change? Not wanting to purchase a P25 II radio if I can help it... Thanks!

Listening from Broomfield

I'm guessing you've been taking a break from monitoring that frequency for quite a while. AFAIK several years ago North Metro stopped simulcasting their main dispatch TG over 460.55. For quite a long time, that frequency has only broadcast initial paging tones for North Metro calls, only within Broomfield. That may have gone away recently as well, I haven't monitored it in the last week or so.

In any event, if you want to monitor North Metro fire and you live in Broomfield, you MUST have a P-25 capable scanner. Moreover, in many areas of Broomfield you can't easily monitor FRCC with any existing scanner, due to simulcast distortion issues. Unfortunately there are only a few "ideal" solutions, and none are cheap. Either get a Unication G4/G5 OR wait a few months and get the new Uniden SDS100 unit, the first scanner to support simulcast. You could also get a regular P-25 scanner for a few hundred bucks, but you may or may not have substantial issues with Simulcast distortion. There is a third slightly less cheaper option you could PM me about if desired, but it requires substantial knowledge of the P-25 protocol and radio programming.

Yes the dispatch tones (and sometimes the voice dispatch) had been coming through 460.55 up until the last week or two. It was great because it meant I could just turn on the Broadcastify stream after hearing the tones but didn't have to listen to all of the activity if I weren't interested.

Thanks for the suggestions on radios, that's always a help. What are the Simulcast distortion issues? Is that because the same P-25 frequency is being broadcast from multiple sites at the same time? How do the official radios used by the district deal with that?

Polkinghorne said:

... What are the Simulcast distortion issues? Is that because the same P-25 frequency is being broadcast from multiple sites at the same time? How do the official radios used by the district deal with that?

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FYI, I forgot to mention another VERY cheap option to monitor a P-25 simulcast systems such as FRCC. Namely, spend about $20 for a rtl sdr dongle, get a linux computer and install OP-25 (free program). It is not easy to install, although it's supposed to have gotten easier recently.

For a VERY basic understanding of why regular scanners (except the upcoming Uniden SDS100) can't handle P-25 simulcast, check out this article. Commercial Radios (i.e. Motorola, Harris, RELM KNG etc) have properly designed I/Q receivers, so simulcast distortion is a non-issue. This is why some folks choose to use Motorola XTS or APX radios configured for non-affiliate scan, they work great with simulcast systems.

Is this why I'm having trouble getting any FRCC to come through for AdCom on my BCD436HP?

There are only three areas of the FRCC that are simulcast.

The recent firmware for the x36 series of Uniden scanners have helped improve reception of those trunked sites.

The cheapest way, if your mostly monitoring in those areas, is to use a yagi antenna pointed to one of those towers. This works 90% of the time, its cheap, and nothing requires extensitve P25 knowledge etc.

There is no need to overly complicate the wheel

Thank you for the suggestion. I have been diving in to my 436 for two days now and overall have been disappointed. I updated the firmware, bought the provoice key. I've been using it in my neighborhood near i-25/us-36 so I assumed I would be able to scan many different departments. My scanner essentially spends the day scanning sites with brief periods of traffic coming through. I've tried multiple resets, reprograms, avoiding faraway DTRS and FRCC sites, turning the squelch down, and turning the threshold up. Walking to my backyard hasn't helped. I'm confused because at times a P25 ID in say FRCC comes in loud and clear, but it's seldom and I can't hear anything but say fire dispatch, no ops come through. I'm a fairly amateur scanner person and this is my first time scanning digital and in Denver metro. Is the antenna the only thing left to fix, or do I have a defective scanner? I've been reading about numerous reception issues with the 436...any further suggestions would be greatly helpful! Feel free to PM me or reply on a different thread if you'd like.

natedawg1604 said:

Commercial Radios (i.e. Motorola, Harris, RELM KNG etc) have properly designed I/Q receivers, so simulcast distortion is a non-issue. This is why some folks choose to use Motorola XTS or APX radios configured for non-affiliate scan, they work great with simulcast systems.

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See I was wondering about that, or Johnson P25 Phase-II radios too, so they could be configured to scanning without attempting to transmit and associate with the network? And what kind of equipment is needed to program one from scratch (i.e. can one buy a $20 USB cable or do they need a specific cradle with expensive software)?

You need specific software, knowledge of the software and obtain keys or files that are not available to the public and most trunked radio users.

So, your best bet is to save up for the Uniden SDS or similar scanner that is designed for such systems. It’s also cheaper than the two way radios and keeps you out of trouble.