• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Why is Harris public Safety p25 better?

Status
Not open for further replies.

BlueMoon2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
468
Location
Midlothian, VA
For those of you that are big Harris public safety p25 fans, I want to know why you think Harris is better than Motorola. Other than any proprietary Harris features, why do you believe that Harris public safety p25 systems and radios are better than Motorola? I want specific examples. I’m not interested in starting a big disagreement on here. I’m just interested in what you have to say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DisasterGuy

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
1,249
Location
Maryland Shore
Anyone very familiar with both platforms at a field engineering level wouldn't take the bait here. The platforms simply take different approaches to things.

-Harris implements geo-diverse NSCs (Master Sites) that are fully redundant even on "small" systems. Motorola implements only one.

-Harris provides a "Distributed Control Point" concept where several sites can each function as the control point (Prime Site) where Motorola implements a single prime site.

-Harris allows all available RF channels to function as control channels as-needed where Motorola selects a primary and limited alternates.

-Harris makes it easy to connect distinctly owned and managed systems into a multi-region federation of systems using intra-WACN roaming where Motorola implements this using ISSI8000.

These are just a few infrastructure level differentiators that favor Harris. There are additional differentiators that favor Motorola architecture or EF Johnson Atlas infrastructure. One isn't per se "better" than the other, they are simply different approaches that may work better for some system implementations than others based on system design objectives.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

DisasterGuy

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
1,249
Location
Maryland Shore
Differentiators where Motorola may be favored over Harris:

-Motorola allows system level DHCP where all IP addresses in a Harris VIDA platform at statically assigned in the UAS.

-Motorola has implemented easy fleetwide subscriber management via their "Radio Management" platform where Harris is still using revisions to their legacy ProFile Manager and batch utility.

-Motorola has many integrated system managent applications (native and third-party) where Harris simply has a web based Regional Network Manager platform for system monitoring.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
 

GM

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,078
Being a former user in the field of a Harris radio on a Motorola P25 backbone system, I like the fact that I can have more than 16 talkgroups on one scan list in a trunked system; whereas with Motorola, I can only scan 16 talkgroups per list at a single time. I was able to use my P7200 radio on one scan list with 210 talkgroups scanning on a single scan list at one time, where the APX7000 was only able to do 16. That was a huge advantage for me, looking at it from an inter-operable standpoint of being informed with multiple jurisdictions.

I also found the programming software much better to use than Motorola's CPS, and the fact that it was much easier to transfer data/codeplugs between radio types. I was able to transfer the data from my P7100 codeplug to the P7200 codeplug with a few clicks and I was up and running within 3 mins. of making those changes.
 

carbineone

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
393
Location
Virginia
With Harris I only need to buy one programming cable per radio type for the life of the radio. With Motorola they make you buy a $150 programming cable every time there is a major firmware revision. I think APX model radios are up to three different cable revisions.
 

Outerdog

T¹ ÆS Ø
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
640
Being a former user in the field of a Harris radio on a Motorola P25 backbone system, I like the fact that I can have more than 16 talkgroups on one scan list in a trunked system; whereas with Motorola, I can only scan 16 talkgroups per list at a single time. I was able to use my P7200 radio on one scan list with 210 talkgroups scanning on a single scan list at one time, where the APX7000 was only able to do 16.

The APX platform allows up to 250 scan list members.
 

Thunderknight

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
2,216
Location
Bletchley Park
With Harris I only need to buy one programming cable per radio type for the life of the radio. With Motorola they make you buy a $150 programming cable every time there is a major firmware revision. I think APX model radios are up to three different cable revisions.

I am using my 6 or 7 year old APX (rev A) programming cable with current firmware 7000 and 8000.
The only issue I was aware of was using them with the 4000 (I think it was the 4000) because they lacked a ground on the accy connector antenna ring, so there was a newer programming cable that was compatible with all model APX portables.
So it's not true that a new major firmware release requires a new cable, at least not in the APX portables.
 

mikewazowski

Forums Manager/Global DB Admin
Staff member
Forums Manager
Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Messages
13,459
Location
Oot and Aboot
The only issue I was aware of was using them with the 4000 (I think it was the 4000) because they lacked a ground on the accy connector antenna ring, so there was a newer programming cable that was compatible with all model APX portables.


Even then, a short jumper could be added to the Rev A cable to make it a Rev C cable.

The statement that Motorola requires you to buy a new cable for updated firmware is completely false.
 

Thunderknight

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
2,216
Location
Bletchley Park
I also found the programming software much better to use than Motorola's CPS, and the fact that it was much easier to transfer data/codeplugs between radio types. I was able to transfer the data from my P7100 codeplug to the P7200 codeplug with a few clicks and I was up and running within 3 mins. of making those changes.

I have to say I used to agree with that statement. I really liked the original RPM (nee Programmer). And I kept lots of global sets and it made updating various models easy.
But I don't know what Harris was thinking with RPM2, but I find it very clumsy and not user friendly. Plus with all the firmware versions (e.g. what it works with), or what you need RPM vs RPM2 for, the inability to go forward and back in file versions depending on license keys for systems, etc.

I think APX with the drag and drop (open two instances side by side and just drag personalities, zones, etc between them) is very helpful. Although for some reason they still make it hard to drag and drop scan lists as they hard code the zone number into it.

But I still like the "original" RPM the best.
 

carbineone

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
393
Location
Virginia
Even then, a short jumper could be added to the Rev A cable to make it a Rev C cable.

The statement that Motorola requires you to buy a new cable for updated firmware is completely false.

So just asking why did my rev A cable not work with a newer APX6000 that I had to buy a new cable for?
 

mikewazowski

Forums Manager/Global DB Admin
Staff member
Forums Manager
Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Messages
13,459
Location
Oot and Aboot
So just asking why did my rev A cable not work with a newer APX6000 that I had to buy a new cable for?


I wouldn't know but I've probably had the same firmware in many of the APX's I've programmed and I've never had to buy a new cable.
 

kb4cvn

Silent Key
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
884
Location
Nowhere near a paved road, away from the maddening
The APX platform allows up to 250 scan list members.


Harris radios allow the scanning of 1024 talkgroups in a single group set.

Ditto with conventional channel...

This was introduced almost a decade ago.


Proprietary Features in Harris?
I don't know of any.

And I should know, I was in the Technical Assistance Center doing tech support for 11 years, before going on and designing/installing new P-25 systems.

Whereas Moto has dozens. I had to deal with the grief with new customers because their Moto radio and/or systems did something unique that nobody else in the industry supported. (Just one more of Moto's many marketing tactics to keep users purchasing only their products!)
 

KE4ZNR

Radio Geek
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
7,254
Location
Raleigh, NC
Harris radios allow the scanning of 1024 talkgroups in a single group set.

Ditto with conventional channel...

This was introduced almost a decade ago.

To be fair anyone working in public safety trying to scan that many talkgroups/channels is an idiot. :D:wink::lol:

Marshall KE4ZNR
 

RRR

OFFLINE
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 6, 2005
Messages
1,970
Location
USA
To be fair anyone working in public safety trying to scan that many talkgroups/channels is an idiot. :D:wink::lol:

Marshall KE4ZNR

You say that, but if you have a Harris system with the 100 "randomly assigned" talkgroups for individual station/unit paging, it makes perfect sense, that, and along with your 10-15 other general talkgroups.

Everything isn't always as you think it is.
 

kb4cvn

Silent Key
Joined
Mar 16, 2004
Messages
884
Location
Nowhere near a paved road, away from the maddening
To be fair anyone working in public safety trying to scan that many talkgroups/channels is an idiot. :D:wink::lol:

Marshall KE4ZNR


Marshall, I agree with you 100%. As I rule, I limited average public safety user to 16 talkgroups (or conventional channels) or less on the knob at a time. Less confusion for everyone involved !!!

Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should. :roll:


However I would, when specific customer requirements dictated, load a 17th and even 18th talkgroup in officer's radios, as a receive only group, to allow them to stay aware of what Fire and EMS were doing. They couldn't directly access the group or transmit on it, but they could do a NUISANCE DELETE (during the scan hang time) if needed.

It proved to be vary useful for LE units, especially on traffic accidents, to maintain situational awareness of when Fire and Medics were enroute, without having to query the Dispatcher.
 

BlueMoon2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
468
Location
Midlothian, VA
I appreciate the input. I have new knowledge of everything from the infrastructure of the system to how many scanlists, etc. can go into a radio. Kb4cvn, there are definitely proprietary functions for Harris. When I did a foia, for the proposed new Harris system for albemarle and charlottesville, Harris redacted their proprietary information.

What I can’t figure out is why so many jurisdictions love Harris and wouldn’t dream of going with Motorola. The other thing is that for videos especially on YouTube of Harris radios demonstrating audio quality, there are very few. For someone trying to learn more about Harris, it’s kind of hard.

I do appreciate all the input though!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Cameron314

Member
Joined
May 30, 2003
Messages
253
Kb4cvn, there are definitely proprietary functions for Harris. When I did a foia, for the proposed new Harris system for albemarle and charlottesville, Harris redacted their proprietary information.

Which aren't the same thing. You seem to be getting proprietary information in a bid mixed up with system functions.
 

BlueMoon2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 26, 2008
Messages
468
Location
Midlothian, VA
So, I’m hoping and guessing that it is possible to make the top selector knob on a Xg-75p the channel selector knob instead of the System selector knob?

Our area currently uses the left and right buttons on the face of the radio to change zones on the Motorola’s we have. I’m assuming that the cps for the Harris p25 radios can do the same thing.

I also know that in one zone, we can mix trunked channels with conventional channels . I.e. atac8 and talkaround 1 (simplex conventional)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

scanmanmi

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
828
Location
Central Michigan
Whereas Moto has dozens. I had to deal with the grief with new customers because their Moto radio and/or systems did something unique that nobody else in the industry supported. (Just one more of Moto's many marketing tactics to keep users purchasing only their products!)
Then doesn't that make them a better system if they can offer more?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top