Posey County Going NXDN...Questions?

I've had my suspicions for a while but I found an article that confirms Posey County is going digital. I have a TRX-2 as well as a disc tapped scanner & SDR dongle with DSDPlus. But I'm curious if I'll be able to still hear the police & dispatch? Here's the article,

Posey Dispatch gets a face lift | MVDemocrat.com

Clip from article:
The current system is an analog system and the new one will be a trunking system called Kenwood NX10 Digital. This also means no more scanners for the general public.

I've also been hearing "Black Township Fire & Rescue" use NXDN on 154.3400, but I do not see any emissions code for that frequency allowing NXDN, it has emissions code "11K0F3E": ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WNHM411 - BLACK TOP FIRE & RESCUE INC

Hopefully it won't be encrypted, I'd like to hear everyone's input on this. Thanks

This LIC is NXDN:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?fccCallsign=WQOJ614
The others are still NFM Analog Licenses

As long as they DO NOT encrypt anyone with an TRX, BCDX36HP, or that gets an SDS100.. Will be able to monitor them. Or run DSD Plus....

this part worries me.
This also means no more scanners for the general public.

The GENERAL PRESS has no clue about current tech. As far as they know we can not hear digital at all.... Unless they ask an scannist, they go with deputy so and so said blah yadda blah. Unless encryption is SPECIFICALLY stated, its up in the air until they go live.

Seems like the media is trying to say your current scanner will no longer work. They likely don't understand nexedge.

Time to start monitoring and see what’s revealed.

155.0850 MHz
155.6250 MHz
155.6475 MHz
159.3075 MHz

Trunked or Conventional ?
NXDN4800 or NXDN9600 ?
RAN ?
LCNs if trunked ?
TGRPs and Radio Aliases?

for now sheriff still analog 155.625.

I want to thank everyone for their input. As of now it's mostly still analog, except for "Black Township Fire & Rescue". The local news that said Posey County is waiting on FCC to approve their request and they hope the next phase is complete by fall.

New Posey Co. dispatch center to serve even more people in the c - Tri-State News, Weather & Sports

Thanks

HERE ya GO!

NexEDGE TRS.
YW
WRBP354
POSEY, COUNTY OF
[COMMUNCATIONS WILL BE USED FOR POSEY COUNTY POLICE DEPT.]
Control Point 1 - 1203 BRITTLE BANK ROAD, MOUNT VERNON IN 812-838-1358
(link)
05/12/2018 License Issued
1 - POSEYVILLE, N ENDICOTT ST, POSEYVILLE (POSEY) IN [Structure: Lattice tower] (map)
[Antenna 1 - HTT: 30.5m, HAAT: 35.1m]
155.8725 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
154.7325 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
154.7925 FB2 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
2 - NEW HARMONEY, INTERSECTION OF 3RD ST. AND STEAM MILL ST., NEW HARMONY (POSEY) IN [Structure: Lattice tower] (map)
[Antenna 1 - HTT: 30.5m, HAAT: 32.7m]
154.8675 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
151.1825 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
154.055 FB2 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
3 - POINT TWP FIRE, 11930 BONEBANK RD, MOUNT VERNON (POSEY) IN [Structure: Lattice tower] (map)
[Antenna 1 - HTT: 30.5m, HAAT: 33.6m]
155.4225 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
155.4375 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
155.6475 FB2 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
4 - MOUNT VERNON, 105 MILLS ST, MT. VERNON (POSEY) IN [Structure: Lattice tower] (map)
[Antenna 1 - HTT: 30.5m, HAAT: 31.8m]
155.0025 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
155.6625 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
155.8875 FB2 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
150.995 FB2 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
5 - CENTRAL TOWERS, 10318 Middle Mt. Vernon Rd, Mt. Vernon (POSEY) IN [Structure: Lattice tower] (map)
[Antenna 1 - HTT: 30.5m, HAAT: 47.6m]
154.7475 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
154.86 FB8 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
155.085 FB2 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
155.625 FB2 Ant: 1 50p 50e Units: 1 4K00F1W (NXDN)
6 - (POSEY) IN 16.0 km radius around fixed location 1
158.8725 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
151.1975 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
159.225 MO Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
7 - (POSEY) IN 16.0 km radius around fixed location 2
158.8425 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
159.06 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
151.0625 MO Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
8 - (POSEY) IN 16.0 km radius around fixed location 3
158.745 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
158.91 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
159.4275 MO Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
9 - (POSEY) IN 16.0 km radius around fixed location 4
159.15 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
159.36 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
151.2125 MO Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
153.995 MO Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
10 - (POSEY) IN 24.0 km radius around fixed location 5
151.2875 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
151.4375 MO8 Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
156.03 MO Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)
151.07 MO Ant: 1 35p 35e Units: 400 4K00F1W (NXDN)

Posey nxdn

Traffic on 155.085 NXDN 9600 RAN 0
Sadly ALL ENC.

trido said:

Traffic on 155.085 NXDN 9600 RAN 0
Sadly ALL ENC.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure it's Posey County doing this on 155.085, It's been going on for months & even transmits while EMS is talking on analog & it does interfere. I contacted whoever runs the Posey County live feed & received an email from the Marrs Township fire Chief saying some problem has been identified and they get the same feedback problem in their trucks & this prompted them to go digital.

He didn't elaborate if it was Posey doing this or not on 155.085, the way I understood his email was they didn't know what was going on. I was able to block it out by programming the CTCSS code into all of my scanners for 155.085.

Thanks again to everyone for all the input.

Looking at the new TRS output power of only fifty watts for each repeater,it will be a very LOCAL AREA ONLY system, and not be very scanner friendly outside Posey County except for the tropo ducting occurrences. Though they probably will mod that as it gets closer to going live to closer to 100 watts.

Posey County going digital

Does anyone know the reasoning why Posey County is implementing a NexEDGE system? It seems it would be far cheaper for them to join the SAFE-T system that already covers the county with a digital radio system. Not only are they going to spend more money and build more towers, they will also lack interoperability with other agencies outside of the county. Also, they will now be on the hook for the full cost of maintaining their own system. I also don't understand why so many agencies have adopted a protocol that is proprietary to a single company rather than using an open standard. Unless their mobile radios are being sold with a P-25 capability that can work on SAFE-T, if they get into a pursuit on I-64 they will quickly be unable to talk to their dispatcher as well as any other LE agencies once they get a few miles down the road. Without knowing what's driving them to implement NexEDGE, this seems like a really bad decision.

Then again, I also don't understand why Evansville is building their own P-25 system rather than using what already exists. The State of Indiana spent hundreds of millions of dollars building a state-wide system so cities and counties wouldn't have to build their own radio networks.

There are multiple reasons someone builds out their own systems... Control being the biggie. They want total control over their own systems, and not be at anyone else's mercy ... Or they want the security of an backup system just in case of a real failure on SAFE-T. Most of the lone fish want the control, its political games usually. Also is the semi corrupt backdoor deals where a Vendor (usually the LOCAL radio shop) having the monetary and political clout with the City/County Councils etc drives the big wedge in. Some agencies/municipalities also build out their own systems but tie them into State Systems, thus keeping the sites basically privately owned and have a nice little out so they can take their ball and go home with it if they so decide... Its complex sometimes. And if Kenwood/EFJ suppies them with an radio that has dual or multi band capabilities, as well as dual/multiple mode abilities, they can add Multiple systems in the radios and have use of at least the Mutual Aid, and Events on SAFE-T. Take us here in Marion County, as well as all the others on the IDPS systems... We all not only primarily use the IDPS TRS's, but also have access to SAFE-T, and have both systems in our radios. Especially Fire and EMS agencies. In one zone is the IDPS systems, in another is SAFE-T and the TGs for Mutual Aid, Events, as well as the surrounding areas SAFE-T TGs... And vice versa with the surrounding agencies, who are primary on SAFE-T but also have IDPS access and TGs. Then you have Columbus/Bartholomew County, that is primarily SAFE-T but ALSO has their OWN P25 TRS for backup. Like Lake County, primarily on their own system, but has SAFE-T as an backup.

dakota91 said:

Does anyone know the reasoning why Posey County is implementing a NexEDGE system? It seems it would be far cheaper for them to join the SAFE-T system that already covers the county with a digital radio system.

Click to expand...

It can be cheaper to build your own. Often regional systems have high monthly charges and require more costly P25 capable radios. It also takes a lot of control away from the department. That doesn't always sit well with the chief.

dakota91 said:

Not only are they going to spend more money and build more towers, they will also lack interoperability with other agencies outside of the county.

Click to expand...

All NXDN capable radios on the market today will do analog just fine. Kenwood sells radios that will do NXDN, DMR, P25 (1 and 2) as well as analog. RF decks can be stacked to cover VHF, UHF and 700-800MHz.

dakota91 said:

Also, they will now be on the hook for the full cost of maintaining their own system.

Click to expand...

I run a NexEdge trunked system. It's not that expensive.

dakota91 said:

I also don't understand why so many agencies have adopted a protocol that is proprietary to a single company rather than using an open standard.

Click to expand...

Kenwood and Icom both make NXDN radios. A few other companies do too. It's not proprietary. You can pull up the specs on NXDN Forum Website

dakota91 said:

Unless their mobile radios are being sold with a P-25 capability that can work on SAFE-T, if they get into a pursuit on I-64 they will quickly be unable to talk to their dispatcher as well as any other LE agencies once they get a few miles down the road. Without knowing what's driving them to implement NexEDGE, this seems like a really bad decision.

Click to expand...

Kenwood sells NXDN/DMR/P25/Analog radios. Not really an issue to add in a P25 system if they want.

And it might seem like a bad decision to a scanner hobbyist, but not necessarily to professionals that are looking at the whole picture.

dakota91 said:

Then again, I also don't understand why Evansville is building their own P-25 system rather than using what already exists. The State of Indiana spent hundreds of millions of dollars building a state-wide system so cities and counties wouldn't have to build their own radio networks.

Click to expand...

Regional systems often lack coverage and have higher buy in costs. It's not always cheaper.

Any updates on this ?

crowe427 said:

Any updates on this ?

Click to expand...

The new system isn't fully up and running yet, police are still using analog for the most part. Below are the ones that I've heard in the last few days, all NXDN. I used dsdplus to decode, I'm not really satisfied with my TRX-2 scanner.

150.99500 --- MOBILE119, MOBILE116, MOBILE108, "sometimes encrypted"
158.84250 --- JAIL 4, JAIL 5, JAIL 7, JAIL 12, JAIL 18, SHERIFF
154.3400 --- Fire & Rescue are still using NXDN

RAN?

milf said:

RAN?

Click to expand...

I'll try to gather more info as they start using the new radios more, but here is some info within the last hour or so from dsdplus,

158.84250 = NEXEDGE48, RAN-1 (CB VOICE)

Sample of event log:
2018/07/15 13:09:44 RAN=1 Group call; RID=31 [....IFF ...]
2018/07/15 13:12:34 RAN=1 Group call; RID=18 [JAIL 18]
2018/07/15 13:19:17 RAN=1 Group call; RID=5 [JAIL 5]
2018/07/15 13:19:30 RAN=1 Group call; RID=5 [JAIL 5] 2s

Tonight I picked up a NXDN CC on 154.7325 for the first time, still going but nothing coming through, using DSDPlus. Signal is weak but I'm assuming it's "Location 1 - POSEYVILLE (Fixed)".

ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Trunked License - WRBP354 - POSEY, COUNTY OF - Frequencies Summary
154.7325 = NEXEDGE48, RAN=4 Current site: L438-4 (TB CCDATA)