Opening up 3.7 - 4.2 GHz for Commercial Use

This was Today,s FCC Media Release from Commissioner O,Rielly--It is a Short Statement


https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2018/db0501/DOC-350514A1.pdf

It worked on paper fine

ipfd320 said:

This was Today,s FCC Media Release from Commissioner O,Rielly--It is a Short Statement


https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2018/db0501/DOC-350514A1.pdf

Click to expand...

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I was the first individual in central Virginia in 1981 to have a private satellite tv system. Soon thereafter I began installing large dish systems and Ku band small dish systems. I also did satellite tv teleconferencing serving the mid-Atlantic area. You have no idea the grief which followed as a result of the FCC sharing the 3,700-4,200 mhz. range with private sector users sharing with common carrier PTP users (i.e., AT&T, etc. The PTP signals were 10 watts and towers placed about every 15-20 miles. 10 ft. parabolic reflectors were used....a recipe for disaster for private sector and home C band satellite tv reception.

In my opinion, private sector cable systems and home satellite tv system users quickly were educated to about RFI from the common carriers. How so? Well, the FCC decided to alternate every 500 mhz. of frequency spectrum with the private sector then common carrier again then private sector again...etc., etc. The main source of any attenuation of a 10 watt PTP signal using a frequency in the private sector portion range was often a disaster when trying to receive a 3.7-4.2 mhz. down linked satellite signal of maybe a thousandth of a watt. The private sector's signals often were swamped. Remember FM locks on the strongest signal. Sometimes a filter worked depending the remaining strength of the PTP signal. It was hell for a TVRO system installer but a good deal for Microwave Signal and other filter providers. The RFI at least was analog and there was a remote possibility sometimes it did work.

Where the PTP signal was digital....forget it. There was no relief. There was no notch RFI filter.

Most satellite signals now are compressed digital. I'm sure that a segment(s) still will have to accommodate a common carrier for occasional C band uplinking.downlinking.

Will the private sector commercial user be prevented from doing PTP? The answer I bet will be "No". What if UPS or Fed Ex want to install a PTP link between area distribution centers? There will be winners and losers. The winners will be the large corporations, i.e, Amazon, Fed Ex, UPS, etc. There are about 20 air miles separating two Amazon Fulfillment Centers where I live and a PTP data link definitely is doable. Do you see where this is going?

You will have a sure bet if you think this is a wonderful idea and happiness will ensure for all. Some eligible users will attempt to dominate like when religious broadcasters attempted to purchase as many UHF and LPTV station licenses when LPTV was the "thing".

I saw this fiasco happen 35 years ago. It may be a replay with different characters and results. Time will tell.

John
W4UVV

W4UVV said:

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I was the first individual in central Virginia in 1981 to have a private satellite tv system. Soon thereafter I began installing large dish systems and Ku band small dish systems. I also did satellite tv teleconferencing serving the mid-Atlantic area. You have no idea the grief which followed as a result of the FCC sharing the 3,700-4,200 mhz. range with private sector users sharing with common carrier PTP users (i.e., AT&T, etc. The PTP signals were 10 watts and towers placed about every 15-20 miles. 10 ft. parabolic reflectors were used....a recipe for disaster for private sector and home C band satellite tv reception.

In my opinion, private sector cable systems and home satellite tv system users quickly were educated to about RFI from the common carriers. How so? Well, the FCC decided to alternate every 500 mhz. of frequency spectrum with the private sector then common carrier again then private sector again...etc., etc. The main source of any attenuation of a 10 watt PTP signal using a frequency in the private sector portion range was often a disaster when trying to receive a 3.7-4.2 mhz. down linked satellite signal of maybe a thousandth of a watt. The private sector's signals often were swamped. Remember FM locks on the strongest signal. Sometimes a filter worked depending the remaining strength of the PTP signal. It was hell for a TVRO system installer but a good deal for Microwave Signal and other filter providers. The RFI at least was analog and there was a remote possibility sometimes it did work.

Where the PTP signal was digital....forget it. There was no relief. There was no notch RFI filter.

Most satellite signals now are compressed digital. I'm sure that a segment(s) still will have to accommodate a common carrier for occasional C band uplinking.downlinking.

Will the private sector commercial user be prevented from doing PTP? The answer I bet will be "No". What if UPS or Fed Ex want to install a PTP link between area distribution centers? There will be winners and losers. The winners will be the large corporations, i.e, Amazon, Fed Ex, UPS, etc. There are about 20 air miles separating two Amazon Fulfillment Centers where I live and a PTP data link definitely is doable. Do you see where this is going?

You will have a sure bet if you think this is a wonderful idea and happiness will ensure for all. Some eligible users will attempt to dominate like when religious broadcasters attempted to purchase as many UHF and LPTV station licenses when LPTV was the "thing".

I saw this fiasco happen 35 years ago. It may be a replay with different characters and results. Time will tell.

John
W4UVV

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I would guess this will become another mobile broadband data band, autioned off to the telecom cartels .

The big players will win this easily

kayn1n32008 said:

I would guess this will become another mobile broadband data band, autioned off to the telecom cartels .

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I agree.....just like auctioning off the 454-455 mhz. range. For that deal only a few khz. sections were auctioned. I think the same process will be used.
Regardless Bezos Amazon and the other big buck operations will try to get as much as they can and then later try to flip whatever they can for a profit.

John
W4UVV

What special kind of idiot is Commissioner O,Rielly? His statement starts out with "Today the bureau initiates a proceeding to further examine the feasibility of opening up 3.7 – 4.2 GHz for commercial use." In a nutshell, its not feasible in any way shape or form.

C-band satellite users are extremely susceptible to terrestrial signals in that band and they will be interfered with. All cable TV companies and satellite companies like DirecTV and Dish get a lot of their programming from C-band, how does Commissioner O,Rielly expect this all to work?

prcguy said:

In a nutshell, its not feasible in any way shape or form.

Click to expand...

Bingo.

They only see dollar signs, I bet the telecom cartels are just drooling with anticipation.

It’s going to be a mess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know what can happen..I had to deal with the RFI mess

prcguy said:

What special kind of idiot is Commissioner O,Rielly? His statement starts out with "Today the bureau initiates a proceeding to further examine the feasibility of opening up 3.7 – 4.2 GHz for commercial use." In a nutshell, its not feasible in any way shape or form.

C-band satellite users are extremely susceptible to terrestrial signals in that band and they will be interfered with. All cable TV companies and satellite companies like DirecTV and Dish get a lot of their programming from C-band, how does Commissioner O,Rielly expect this all to work?

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In my opinion, this guy has little understanding of the technology and politics involved. To him it's a win win for everyone. Not exactly. Can you envision "Amazon Data Systems Network? I can. You are correct about active C Band programing. I retired all my satcom activities in 2014. For example, in past years the Veterans Admin. Network and cable systems programing relay feeds were popular to Alaska where they owned a cable system. (Watch Bering Sea Gold for pics at Nome, AK. You will see minimally 10 ft. to 16 ft. reflectors at look angles typically from 5 to 10 degrees elevation. The NORAD rectangle reflectors probably are 8 ghz. fixed on Russia and part of the US Early Warning System at approximately 1 degree elevation.)

I did a number of C Band teleconference down links. A friend who owned New England Satellite Systems frequently did C band down links to one one from Italy of live medical procedures at a particular medical facility in New England.

What only a few satellite monitoring types of the esoteric feeds such as myself found on C band to be very interesting were the Premier and Clear Channel audio feeds 24/7 on the lowest look angle satellite I could receive. At the time there were at least 50+ feeds to their member radio stations 24/7 mainly which provided musical programing with local breaks which I could not hear.

In my opinion unless there is a cheaper way to provide this service, cable system providers probably will bid using a shell company if necessary. It will be interesting to see what evolves and may not be the "rosey" outcome FCC Commissioner O' Rielly envisions.

The one satellite I really miss was the analog Secam Russian "Gorizont" (Horizon) circa 1980-1988. Keep in mind then the US had only a few C band satellites used mostly by telcoms.

Every day at 1600 EST members of the "Sputnik" system provided A/V packages of anything the member thought worthy. Control was in Prague. Members included Nicarauda, Cuba, Czechosovakia, Libya, East Germany(Berlin), Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Mongolia, Moscow and a few more countries I don't recall from memory.

The skunk at the picnic was Cuba. Years ago Cuba decided to use NTSC-M. The rest of the world mostly used PAL and a few countries like France and Russia used SECAM. The Europeans were smart. They saw the down sides of the 1939 NSTC TV standard and did not make the same tv standard mistakes. The Sputnik member's PAL uplinks video looked great until Cuba transmitted. As expected the video looked like crap.

Gorizont was designed to provide tv programing to Russian citizens and affiliated locations mainly in the AOR region of western Europe arc. In those days Europe hotels were so desperate for tv programing, especially in Scandanavian hotels with tourists, Gorizont satellite tv systems were installed. It was something compared to nothing because 99% of the tourists did not understand Russian but they could relate to folk music and cultural singers available 24/7.

I was the first person in central VA to have a Gorizont system in 1984. Everything was fine until the Russians decided to go digital in the late 80s.

In 1994 I wrote a magazine article for Monitoring Times magazine about Gorizont. I also did color screen captures of the various uplinkers to the Sputnik system just before they started their feed. If anyone wishes to read/view in MS Word doc format via a return email attachment, PM me.

For me, those really were the good old days although, in hindsight, all too brief.

John
W4UVV

Now the FCC Commissioner Pai is Having This---->FCC TO HOLD OPEN COMMISSION MEETING
THURSDAY, MAY 10, 2018--Rulemaking for Amendment of Parts 1, 21, 73, 74 and
101 of the Commission’s Rules to Facilitate the Provision of Fixed and Mobile Broadband Access,
Educational and Other Advanced Services in the 2150-2162 and 2500-2690 MHz Bands

Read More Here
https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2018/db0503/DOC-350545A1.pdf

kayn1n32008 said:

Bingo.

They only see dollar signs, I bet the telecom cartels are just drooling with anticipation.

It’s going to be a mess.

Click to expand...

It always is.

What's on their mind is that C-Band is static technology that's not generating its revenue potential when "wireless" is exploding all around it - the same as the guardband around the GPS L1 downlink for Ligado, and the same as they want 6 GHz microwave to operate in an increased noisefloor environment from secondary users.

Looking Further Into the Files on This I Came Across an April Public Notice for A 90 Day Temporary Freeze Effective on April 19, 2018, on the Filing of New or Modification Applications for Fixed-Satellite Service Earth Station Licenses, Receive-Only Earth Station Registrations, and fixed microwave licenses in the 3.7-4.2 GHz Band

This is a 5 Page Notice so the Link is Below---Happy Reading

https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2018/db0419/DA-18-398A1.pdf