P25 Phase II Simulcast - Workaround?

System Info:
I'm not sure if I'm dealing with the same issue as other areas, but our local dispatch center is now on an 800 mhz P25 Phase II simulcast system. It's also connected to the state's 700mhz system, which the sites are not simulcast, but allows the users to drift wherever picking up the best site.

Observed:
I've noticed this for quite a while, but it seems to have worsened with the addition of another fill site for the simulcast system. Another user in the area hasn't been able to monitor the simulcast system at all now. So today I drove into the heart of the simulcast area and sure enough, no signal bars or reception. So I tried my trick of turning on another distant site, letting it "sync up," then I can turn the distant site off. All is well at that point, until I turn the scanner off or turn the system off. Turning back on, back to no reception.

Here's a quick video I shot:
https://youtu.be/AyP3CDzKImk

Thoughts???

It's more snake oil and voodoo, in the same category as punching a hole in a paint can and sticking the antenna inside, or cutting the braid of the antenna coax.

None of it actually adresses the fundamental issue with simulcast reception--the inability of a standard FM receiver to properly handle multiple digital signals on the same frequency. I monitor several simulcast systems on a daily basis with the 436 and 536, both at home and mobile. The system I monitor the most has two simulcast sites. At home, I normally get good reception from one, but the other site is normally nearly unusable. Sometimes it shows full signal bars, and other times nothing. And it doesn't matter whether I monitor just one site or scan both sites. The only thing that makes a difference is sometimes during bad weather the site I normally have trouble with comes in clearly, and the other one does not. So I normally scan both sites, but I have the site that usually gets good reception scan first, so any traffic on both sites (>95%) comes in on the "good" site.

Simulcast reception issues are not something that can be fixed with firmware updates, paint cans, or site selection rituals. It requires different hardware--an I/Q demodulator. This is why the SDS100 is such a big deal--it is the first time receiver hardware specifically designed to receive simulcast correctly has been put in a scanner. It was previously only found in the Unication pagers and pro-grade radios costing $1000+.

What you show in the video is either a bug unrelated to simulcast reception (what firmware are you running?), or (most likely) a coincidence, but not something that is going to be useful to people trying to receive simulcast with a 436 or any other scanner without an I/Q demodulator.

It was running 1.19. Hadn't seen the 1.20 build before I left. It's been like this since the new system went live. I would have noticed it starting with build 1.11.30 or 1.11.31. I doubt it's a coincidence as I have to do this every time. It will not receive until I add another site. Once I do it, the simulcast site comes in perfect wherever I am within the simulcast footprint. I totally understand the I/Q demodulator being necessary, but what I'm doing is working for me. Just wanted to pass it along.

try P25 threshold manual setting at 11.

The best manual setting varies by site.

ScanRite said:

It will not receive until I add another site. Once I do it, the simulcast site comes in perfect wherever I am within the simulcast footprint.

Click to expand...

That's a firmware bug, not a simulcast problem. Update to .20, then record a debug log (hold down Avoid during power-up, then select Settings / Debug Log Mode / SD Card in the scanner menu) and post it in the .20 firmware discussion thread, along with the link to your video.

I concur, a setting of 11 works great here on phase 2 tdma as well