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Linking 3 analog sites together.

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AngelFire91

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Hey everyone. I have been out of the radio world for a while and was just tasked with a job. Here is what's going on.

My company is growing. We have a building location, I'll call it "Site 1." We have been using UHF simplex for a long time there. Well, we are finally growing and adding two additional sites. Each about 70 miles in opposite directions from Site 1. I'm really familiar with adding repeaters and putting up tower's/leasing tower space etc but I'm hoping for an easier option (I.e. Cheaper).

I've been looking into the IP Site Connect stuff and have been pretty impressed (It was all JUST starting infancy when I left the radio shop). But my understanding of it is that it will not link Analog to Analog among the sites. Here is where we have a problem. We have radio's at each location that are not TDMA capable nor are we able to replace them. They are however P25 capable but if we could keep them Analog that would be best.

Okay, get to the point already....

Is there some sort of option like a Radio/IP interface, or another way to link the 3 sites together? Static IP's are not a problem, and it doesn't have to be Motorola, that's just what I'm most familiar with. The ability for signalling would be awesome too, but that's just a nice to have and not required.

Thanks,
 
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mmckenna

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Lots of devices out there that will take a 600 ohm 2 or 4 wire circuit to IP and back:
Radio over IP Products, Solutions, and Application- TC Communications

RoIP, Radio Over IP is what you are looking for. Using your existing analog system and just connecting over IP is easy enough. You'll need to have base stations at each end if you are going to use simplex. If you are running a decent repeater, they should have, or have an option for 2 or 4 wire interface.
 

krokus

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Hey everyone. I have been out of the radio world for a while and was just tasked with a job. Here is what's going on.

My company is growing. We have a building location, I'll call it "Site 1." We have been using UHF simplex for a long time there. Well, we are finally growing and adding two additional sites. Each about 70 miles in opposite directions from Site 1. I'm really familiar with adding repeaters and putting up tower's/leasing tower space etc but I'm hoping for an easier option (I.e. Cheaper).

I've been looking into the IP Site Connect stuff and have been pretty impressed (It was all JUST starting infancy when I left the radio shop). But my understanding of it is that it will not link Analog to Analog among the sites. Here is where we have a problem. We have radio's at each location that are not TDMA capable nor are we able to replace them. They are however P25 capable but if we could keep them Analog that would be best.

Okay, get to the point already....

Is there some sort of option like a Radio/IP interface, or another way to link the 3 sites together? Static IP's are not a problem, and it doesn't have to be Motorola, that's just what I'm most familiar with. The ability for signalling would be awesome too, but that's just a nice to have and not required.

Thanks,
Do you want all radio traffic to be heard at all sites, or are the remote sites just needing to talk to the central/main building?

Sent using Tapatalk
 

AngelFire91

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Do you want all radio traffic to be heard at all sites, or are the remote sites just needing to talk to the central/main building?

Sent using Tapatalk

Thanks for the information so far guys!

All need to be heard.
 

Project25_MASTR

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IDA has remote linking products.

Barix's Annuncicom products can perform simple ROIP gateways.

The NXU-2 is maybe the standard which most ROIP gateways are compared to.

That being said, there are many repeaters out there which can link over analog. Some even P25 capable (analog or digital linking) but for most intents and purpose it is probably quicker and cheaper to interface to ROIP gateways (especially if using simplex).
 

AngelFire91

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Thank you guys for the information.

So I was looking at the IDA and the JPS NXU-2 and I came up with a question. Will the Server re-broadcast to all the clients? So for example I have 3 sites (Server, Client 1 and Client 2) If Client 1 sends RoIP traffic to the Server, will people that are listening to Client 2 hear that as well? The books and manuals for those interfaces only ever show 2 sites, just one server and one master.

Thanks!
 

MaxK98

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At 70miles it may be a bit of a strech, but being on the cheap side you could add a mobile connected to the RX and mic lines of the repeater at secondary sites. The mobile would be programmed with frequencies of the main repeater and connected to a yagi pointing toward the main site.

This will only work on analog of course.
 

PriorMike

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Not to hijack too much, but this thread got me thinking.

First, say I have 3 repeaters, one would be central with the other two 7-8 km from it, and 14 km from each other, all linked over IP. Would there be a potential problem where a mobile/portable would transmit and two(or all three) repeaters would conflict with each other over which one would be the main receiver? Not sure of that question makes sense, but it's the best way to word it.

Second, if the IP connection is lost for whatever reason, is there a fail safe where the repeaters keep working?

Thanks,
 

mmckenna

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First, say I have 3 repeaters, one would be central with the other two 7-8 km from it, and 14 km from each other, all linked over IP. Would there be a potential problem where a mobile/portable would transmit and two(or all three) repeaters would conflict with each other over which one would be the main receiver? Not sure of that question makes sense, but it's the best way to word it.

Yes, and this is what a voting comparator is used for. It picks the signal with the best signal to noise ratio and sends that one to the transmitter. You would not want to just buss all the audio paths together.



Second, if the IP connection is lost for whatever reason, is there a fail safe where the repeaters keep working?

Only if you design it in. Having alternate IP paths would be a good idea -if- this connection was critical. If it's a convenience thing, then a cost/benefit analysis would be in order.
 

PriorMike

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Yes, and this is what a voting comparator is used for. It picks the signal with the best signal to noise ratio and sends that one to the transmitter. You would not want to just buss all the audio paths together.





Only if you design it in. Having alternate IP paths would be a good idea -if- this connection was critical. If it's a convenience thing, then a cost/benefit analysis would be in order.

Ah, yes, I've heard those mentioned on here before. Would I only need one, located at the central site? I figure it'd be linked over IP.

I'm just thinking out loud; it's for a fire department I'm a member of. We're mostly rural with varied terrain, and operating on simplex. We have 3 stations, so maybe a repeater at each linked together. Obviously it may not be that simple as coverage would have to be tested, but if I make a suggestion to improve things it's nice to have a solution in my back pocket.
 

mmckenna

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Ah, yes, I've heard those mentioned on here before. Would I only need one, located at the central site? I figure it'd be linked over IP.

You'd need one voter at the central location.
Each RX or RX/TX site would require the necessary IP interfaces.

I'm just thinking out loud; it's for a fire department I'm a member of. We're mostly rural with varied terrain, and operating on simplex. We have 3 stations, so maybe a repeater at each linked together. Obviously it may not be that simple as coverage would have to be tested, but if I make a suggestion to improve things it's nice to have a solution in my back pocket.

If all 3 repeaters are on the same TX frequency, then you get into simulcast, and that can be a big headache. That requires precise frequency control on each repeater and the necessary gear at each end. Not cheap or easy, and something you'd need a very experienced tech to set up.
 

slicerwizard

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I'm just thinking out loud; it's for a fire department I'm a member of. We're mostly rural with varied terrain, and operating on simplex. We have 3 stations, so maybe a repeater at each linked together.
Not happening due to simulcast issues. You could have one central repeater plus two voted receivers though.

Two TX/RX pairs (central and outlying) would work, but users would have to manually switch to the correct channel on their radios. And you'd have to license the second pair.
 
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