My idea for the next generation scanner

While the SD card scanners do offer a lot of advantages, there are two big negatives:

1. Turning on and off with car ignition or power instead of the power button can corrupt the SD card.
2. If the SD card gets corrupted, the scanner is out of service until it can be replaced.

Obviously no good while mobile or the scanner is being used from a remote location.

So here is the idea:
The 780/996 etc scanners were rock solid when being turned on and off from power not the switch, but they were limited as to memory for talk groups and systems.

Make a DMA based scanner, but using more non volatile memory than in the past. A lot more.
PROGRAM the memory from an SD card.
In other words, on first start up or when you want to make a change, go into the menu and tell the scanner to program from the SD card. Similar to using VScanners on Whistler.

It would take a few minutes, but once programmed the SD card is out of the loop, and the scanner is once again bulletproof. All new starts and stops are strictly memory based, like on a 996XT

Sure the scanner might be able to do a few less tricks (depending on how much memory is on board), but all the mobile issues disappear.

I don't think UPMAN is about to jump on this, since there is a brand new scanner offering.
But maybe Whistler can give it some thought.

My Idea PLEASE make it WORK and EASY to use lol AND not cost a ARM and a LEG to buy it

Detachable face-plate please on Mobile/Desktop like Whistler. It is harder and harder to mount scanner in new vehicles. All dashboards now cluttered and the only way is to hide scanner and use Face-plate
Not much to ask

No.

Because flash memory has a limited number of times it can be written. It doesn't matter whether it's inside the unit or an external card. Using an external card means you swap out a new card in the old one fails. What you propose would require replacing the entire scanner, or sending it for repair.

Older models avoided the problem by not allowing recording to flash. What you're proposing is simply a bad idea.

scosgt said:

While the SD card scanners do offer a lot of advantages, there are two big negatives:

1. Turning on and off with car ignition or power instead of the power button can corrupt the SD card.
2. If the SD card gets corrupted, the scanner is out of service until it can be replaced.

Obviously no good while mobile or the scanner is being used from a remote location.

So here is the idea:
The 780/996 etc scanners were rock solid when being turned on and off from power not the switch, but they were limited as to memory for talk groups and systems.

Make a DMA based scanner, but using more non volatile memory than in the past. A lot more.
PROGRAM the memory from an SD card.
In other words, on first start up or when you want to make a change, go into the menu and tell the scanner to program from the SD card. Similar to using VScanners on Whistler.

It would take a few minutes, but once programmed the SD card is out of the loop, and the scanner is once again bulletproof. All new starts and stops are strictly memory based, like on a 996XT

Sure the scanner might be able to do a few less tricks (depending on how much memory is on board), but all the mobile issues disappear.

I don't think UPMAN is about to jump on this, since there is a brand new scanner offering.
But maybe Whistler can give it some thought.

Click to expand...

There's a much simpler solution for mobile scanners - use both terminal 15 and terminal 30. When terminal 15 goes from 13.8v to 0v, the scanner goes into shutdown mode and the scanner turns off. Want to use the scanner without the engine running? Simply turn it back on.

Or just turn recording off. Problem solved.

I agree that DMA architecture is the way to go and much simpler to operate and program overall. I will never own a scanner that is dependent on a SD card to operate, besides the information from the database that is stored on the card most times is outdated.

Also i like to have control of the firmware so i can have what i want in the personality of the scanner and not what someone thinks i should have.

Definitely way more memory for larger systems and more talk groups, better selectivity and sensitivity, and better decoding abilities for TRS's.

When i was working I had many DMA based scanners running in my vehicles all day long for hours on end for years and my truck being turned on and off multiple times a day with never a problem. Most definitely the way to go.

withdrawn

scosgt said:

While the SD card scanners do offer a lot of advantages, there are two big negatives:

1. Turning on and off with car ignition or power instead of the power button can corrupt the SD card.
2. If the SD card gets corrupted, the scanner is out of service until it can be replaced.

Obviously no good while mobile or the scanner is being used from a remote location.

So here is the idea:
The 780/996 etc scanners were rock solid when being turned on and off from power not the switch, but they were limited as to memory for talk groups and systems.

Make a DMA based scanner, but using more non volatile memory than in the past. A lot more.
PROGRAM the memory from an SD card.
In other words, on first start up or when you want to make a change, go into the menu and tell the scanner to program from the SD card. Similar to using VScanners on Whistler

It would take a few minutes, but once programmed the SD card is out of the loop, and the scanner is once again bulletproof. All new starts and stops are strictly memory based, like on a 996XT

Sure the scanner might be able to do a few less tricks (depending on how much memory is on board), but all the mobile issues disappear.

I don't think UPMAN is about to jump on this, since there is a brand new scanner offering.
But maybe Whistler can give it some thought.

Click to expand...

You should post this on the whistler forum also.

You could also just bring a few extra micro SD cards in your glove box. It's really easy to duplicate them once you have it programmed.

Never had a problem with MicroSD cards in Uniden scanners, Yaesu HTs or mobiles (those are not provided).

Isn't Whistler stuck with SD cards?

No they use the same thing.

jonwienke said:

No.

Because flash memory has a limited number of times it can be written. It doesn't matter whether it's inside the unit or an external card. Using an external card means you swap out a new card in the old one fails. What you propose would require replacing the entire scanner, or sending it for repair.

Older models avoided the problem by not allowing recording to flash. What you're proposing is simply a bad idea.

Click to expand...

I respect your tech knowledge, but I think you misunderstand my post.
I am suggesting a hybrid between the two types:
A DMA scanner with enough built in memory to be able to handle large systems with a ton of talkgroups, and at the same time an SD card system for recording and programming.
I own numerous DMA scanners, each has been programmed dozens of times. Dozens, not hundreds. All are still going strong. In fact, I still have 796 and 296 units that work perfectly. While not DMA, they have internal memory that retains information - non-volatile.
I agree that if someone needs to program their scanner every day the lifespan could be limited.
But seriously, almost no one does that. My 996 units get put on the computer for fresh programming probably twice a year.

DMA non-volatile internal memory IS flash memory and is subject to the same failures as flash memory in SD cards.

The only reason you don't see as many failures with DMA scanner internal memory is because it is only written to when changing programming, as opposed to every time a transmission is received. You can extend external flash memory life if you disable recording.

My point stands. What you propose would require disabling features newer models are expected to have (transmission recording and weekly programming updates), and would require repair service to change out failed memory. There is no upside.

Carry an extra programmed SD card. You have a spare for your car or are you stuck on the side of the road until some one brings you a new tire? I have spares for my GRE/WHISTLERS and UNIDENS. I carry a 8 inch Windows 8 Tablet in my scanner jump bag with spare AA batteries cables and rechargeable USB battery packs a 5000mha 10000mha and a 30000mha. All it takes is planning on your part.

buddrousa said:

Carry an extra programmed SD card. You have a spare for your car or are you stuck on the side of the road until some one brings you a new tire? I have spares for my GRE/WHISTLERS and UNIDENS. I carry a 8 inch Windows 8 Tablet in my scanner jump bag with spare AA batteries cables and rechargeable USB battery packs a 5000mha 10000mha and a 30000mha. All it takes is planning on your part.

Click to expand...

Completely off point.
I use my scanners to stream from remote. Not possible to simply change out SD card.

jonwienke said:

DMA non-volatile internal memory IS flash memory and is subject to the same failures as flash memory in SD cards.

The only reason you don't see as many failures with DMA scanner internal memory is because it is only written to when changing programming, as opposed to every time a transmission is received. You can extend external flash memory life if you disable recording.

My point stands. What you propose would require disabling features newer models are expected to have (transmission recording and weekly programming updates), and would require repair service to change out failed memory. There is no upside.

Click to expand...

Once again, you do not seem to understand what I am saying.
I am not talking about programming a radio every day or every week. Recording would be done on an SD card.
I am talking about not needing to remove the DMA scanner from a vehicle or get it to a computer to program it.
Pop the card into the computer, make your changes, and then program the computer from the card.
NOT every day!
What is so hard to understand. DMA scanners are not volatile. You can turn them off and on at will and not corrupt anything. That is important for some people.

And it is NOT important for me, or many many people, to update the data base every week.
Here in the NYC area public safety freqs rarely change until an entire system changes.

scosgt said:

I am talking about not needing to remove the DMA scanner from a vehicle or get it to a computer to program it.
Pop the card into the computer, make your changes, and then program the computer from the card.
NOT every day!
What is so hard to understand. DMA scanners are not volatile. You can turn them off and on at will and not corrupt anything. That is important for some people.

Click to expand...

You're missing the point. DMA as a scanner design is over, done, finished. Newer scanner models are expected to allow recording of transmissions, and allow regularly updated programming databases. The problem you're trying to solve has nothing to do with whether the flash memory is mounted inside the radio, or in a removable card. It has everything to do with the feature set of the scanner. The flash memory in SD cards is the same flash memory that is built internally into DMA scanners.

There are 2 reasons why SD cards get corrupted:

1. Exceeding the total number of write cycles the memory is designed to handle. That happens a lot faster when the scanner is writing to flash memory every time a transmission is received (1000+ times per day), as opposed to every 6 months when you update programming.

2. Interrupting power in the middle of a sector write. This is not a problem specific to flash storage, rotating rust drives are even more easily corrupted if power is lost during a write. This isn't an issue if you're not recording transmissions to flash memory.

Both of these issues are based on the feature set of the scanner, and neither has anything to do with whether the memory is located inside the scanner, or on a removable card.

If you're going to have a SD card slot, then having to copy programming data to internal flash memory before it can be used is a pointless extra step. You should be able to pop the card in, and let the scanner use it directly.

The current design makes the most sense, given that recording transmissions wears out the flash memory orders of magnitude faster than monthly reprogramming. Your proposal only makes sense if you eliminate transmission recording from the scanner's feature list. And even then, it involves an unnecessary extra step copying the card to internal memory, creates an expensive point of failure (if the internal flash memory goes bad), and unnecessarily increases the cost of the scanner by having redundant internal flash memory.

Does your generator at your remote site need gas?
Does your generator at your remote site need batteries?
Does you UPS that backs up your scanner need batteries?
Some times you just have to do maintenance on things.

Maybe I'm missing something, but the OP describes exactly how the scanner operates, now. When you turn it on, it reads the current programming from the card into internal memory and scans based on the internal memory.