The Grumpy Old Man Club

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Movieman990

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Trust me, I'm not fixated on this topic, but in my travels around the net looking for info on some ham subject I run into this on a fairly regular basis...and if that means anything, it probably means it is more common than just the bumps I see.

>>>>>>>>>>

In looking at a youtube video on manually programming in repeater frequencies on an Inexpensive Chinese Radio (or as some like to call them CCRs) I found a fellow who did a pretty good job, but when I looked at the comments below his video I saw that he had blocked the ability for anyone to leave comments. It looks like at one point it was open to comments, but read what he had to say:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thanks to everyone leaving grumpy comments that ensure nobody under 60 wants to get into ham radio! You're really helping keep the younger people out of our old man's hobby; otherwise, we might not be able to have nets at 5AM or club meetings on Friday (ie date) nights!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I thought he was on to something as I have run into some of what he mentioned. Anyway, I guess he was able to delete all the "downer" comments or they just went away when he blocked comments from that point forward.

I repeat what I have said elsewhere that in addition to the "grumps" I have also met some nice hams, so as usual, it's just part of life ! Ignore the grumps, go with the good !
 

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Will001

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Believe me, there are some really crappy hams around where I am. They are all a bunch of old farts who think they are God’s gift to ham radio, when in fact they just have a massive ego and a huge problem with pride. Let’s just say there have been huge fights between normal hams and the OF’s. Good ol’ ham radio...never a dull moment.


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mmckenna

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Just like any hobby.
The "new guys" will never be as good as the "old guys", or so they think. And it just drives the new hams away. I know a few guys in their 20's who would be really interested in amateur radio, and one guy that has his license, but the enthusiasm isn't there. There are some that try new technologies, but then the old-farts like to show up and start complaining about no-code vs. know-code.

And before I forget:
"Get off my lawn, kid!"
 

Will001

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These guys cling to HF like it’s going to just disappear, and meanwhile all the “cool hams” are hanging out on DMR...like I said on another thread, I didn’t get my license for several years because the grumpy old guys just didn’t appeal to me.


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Movieman990

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The things I don't know

And I'll add that there is a very justifiable hatred for CCR's. Old fart or not.

Offhand, I would think that if the CCRs are used properly they shouldn't come under scrutiny, but I know there is a lot I don't know. I know I will use them properly but I'm sure there are some who won't. Somehow they will get around what is legal and use them incorrectly.

Is it a matter of these little radios being capable of operating in frequencies where they are not allowed?

Is it a matter of bad engineering that they might interrupt other's communications?

I have to admit I haven't explored the bad aspects of the Baofengs, etc as I can't imagine myself using them improperly, but if there is something inherently harmful built into them, maybe you guys can make it simple for me to understand here.

Finally, since the ccrs have been around for something like 5 years and the FCC is now starting to challenge them a bit, maybe something should be done about the process of vetting manufacturers more than is being done now.

Thanks for any answers.
 

w8lgz

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I'm not sure who's worse, the grumpy old hams complaining about the new, or the 1 month new hams complaining about the old?? Solution...stay off the web complaining and get on the air and have some fun!

Jim, W8LGZ (Old ham)
 

Movieman990

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Grumpy new ham .... not me ....

I'm not sure who's worse, the grumpy old hams complaining about the new, or the 1 month new hams complaining about the old?? Solution...stay off the web complaining and get on the air and have some fun!

Jim, W8LGZ (Old ham)

Well, I have been participating in several 2M nets during the 6 weeks or so I have been licensed and on those nets I have seen both good and bad hams at work....doesn't stop me from enjoying the nets for my intended purposes, but supports my theory that there are good and bad everywhere....guess it just surprises me how easy it is for some of those folks to belittle the new guy (not meaning that you did Jim)

Last night I joined a net and the person going through the script noted that their rep at ham cram let her know that there might be some "KM6" newbies joining in .... he mentioned the suffixes which were quite a ways newer than my "umu" so I stayed around to see if these newbies would come on-air.

Turns out they didn't, but I did and got pretty much short shrift from the moderator who couldn't wait to tell a story of her own "week in ham". Oh well, maybe next week.
 

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Will001

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I have been doing ham radio for 9 months, and it’s been fun, except for, you know, the OF’s.


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w8lgz

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No worries Ron. The important thing is to keep learning. Listen...a lot...to get a feel for how things are done and ignore the grumpiness. It's going to happen no matter what band or mode you're on. I've been licensed since 1981, and have heard it all along (Been a little grumpy here and there too. LOL). Good thing is, there's more nice hams than there are grumpy ones. Welcome aboard to you and Will and enjoy the ride!

Jim, W8LGZ
 

Brts96

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Sometimes, the most grumpy people are just putting up a front. Once you get past the hard shell, they can be great people and have a lot to teach. The trick is getting past it.

That's been my experience in life anyway. Several people that I knew who seemed cranky were actually decent folks when you got to know them.

Just my $.02, but I'm not very good at knowing things.

Respectfully,
Brts96
 

Movieman990

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Yikes...I'm a curmudgeon !

I think Lauri CF has already found the word that sums them/us adequately - "curmudgeons".

"An ill-tempered (and frequently old) person full of stubborn ideas or opinions."

....but see.....

https://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Curmudgeon

Thanks for the link.... I didn't read all of it....didn't need to. I found out in the first 5 examples that I was in fact a curmudgeon! It made for some entertaining and enlightening reading.
 

SCPD

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i make youtube videos about baofeng, i dont disable comments but the usual turn of events gos like this: i supply basic information and sometimes work my way into more complex things, as we all know, programming this type of radio for even an experienced person needs some reading up on, also i comment on quality but thats besides the point, usually someone will mention a variation of this, a person who uses baofeng for gmrs frs pmr446 or murs, as we know, not type certified, it can just be a question about the usage of those services or a statement, thats where it gets bad, people comment on those comments and then they argue until foul language is used, theres also people who just call the person who made the video stupid and comment about any little thing they can, thats about it. cheers.
 

mmckenna

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Offhand, I would think that if the CCRs are used properly they shouldn't come under scrutiny, but I know there is a lot I don't know. I know I will use them properly but I'm sure there are some who won't. Somehow they will get around what is legal and use them incorrectly.

Is it a matter of these little radios being capable of operating in frequencies where they are not allowed?

No, that's not really the fault of the radio, it's the marketing that sells them towards unknowing users that assume "since I bought it for $35 of Amazon, it must not require a license". Although there have been cases where the Chinese companies have faked the necessary FCC certifications that showed them as being acceptable for use on Part 90 frequencies, when in fact, they were not.

Is it a matter of bad engineering that they might interrupt other's communications?

Poor or non-existant filtering, cheap components, and capabilities that can far exceed the knowledge of the users has resulted in issues. If you look at some of the technical specs, they have really odd emission designators that don't match with industry standards. The feeling is that if they force them to run narrower than allowed, that permits the sloppy transmitters from emitting energy outside the allowed channel. An odd approach, to say the least, but I guess it's one way of dealing with sloppy quality control.
Without good filtering, these things can cause spurs outside the intended channel that can cause interference to other users.

But, a broken higher quality radio can do the same thing. So there's some requirement on the users to be aware.


I have to admit I haven't explored the bad aspects of the Baofengs, etc as I can't imagine myself using them improperly, but if there is something inherently harmful built into them, maybe you guys can make it simple for me to understand here.

Finally, since the ccrs have been around for something like 5 years and the FCC is now starting to challenge them a bit, maybe something should be done about the process of vetting manufacturers more than is being done now.

Thanks for any answers.

The issue is that the FCC has allowed radio manufacturers to utilize their own testing labs to prove the radio meets the FCC certifications. Honest companies that value integrity play by the rules. Some Chinese companies have falsified documentation to show they met requirements. After all, not really anything to lose.
The FCC doesn't appear to do any spot testing to keep them honest. That doesn't do anyone any good.
You'll find that the FCC doesn't do their job very well, at least not towards the consumer/hobbyist or industry. FCC does a pretty good job of taking care of the cellular carriers and large broadcasting conglomerates, though. Not blaming the individuals at the FCC. The issue is that they have been directed to focus on cellular and broadcasting, and there isn't much political benefit to helping the consumer.


Using one of these lower cost Chinese radios isn't necessarily bad, if you understand the rules that apply. They certainly are attractive to new hams. Why spend $150 on a 2 meter only radio when you can get a dual band radio for $35? That makes sense and I can understand the attraction. Issue is that there is a reason why they are so cheap, and it isn't because the Chinese manufacturers really want to help out American hobbyists. It's because they are built cheap out of the minimum amount of parts possible and with minimal tuning.
 

Movieman990

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Thanks...Mc.......

Good info to know. Hopefully I won't be interfering with the air waves when I use mine. Still looking at the many possibilities for a base rig and the industrial strength I've seen in the big three mfgs seems like a good sign of longevity AND electronics done correctly.
 

zz0468

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I'm not sure who's worse, the grumpy old hams complaining about the new, or the 1 month new hams complaining about the old?

This.

Yeah, there are some cranky old hams. I'm probably one of them. I don't suffer fools gladly, but simply being a newcomer isn't what I would refer to as a fool.

As many cranky old hams as the OP has encountered, there are as many newcomers entering into the hobby who refuse to learn about things like band plans and local customs.

I'm quite willing to help newcomers learn, but get turned off to that when a new ham will pick apart the various "gentleman's agreements" that allow vhf and uhf operations to coexist because they can't find it in Part 97, or disagree with what the rule actually means.

I get cranky when a pair of newcomers cranks up on FM on the CW calling frequency, or run P25 simplex on a repeater input, then argue that it's OK because that frequency is within the privileges of their license class.

The study guides out there do a poor job covering the self-regulating nature of amateur radio.
 

Golay

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I'll jump into this with a couple of comments:

First off, one particular CCR, the infamous Bullfrog UV-5R, is responsible for half the hams in our club. If it wasn't for the affordability of these entry price radios, our club would be half the size it is, all kidding aside. And none of these members (seriously, none) that started with a Bullfrog is still using that Bullfrog as their primary handheld. Every one of them has upgraded to a nice Big 3 dual or tri-bander, or a D-Star or DMR radio.

As far as the Old Fart Club, I think it's safe to say many of the Curmudgeons just don't have any social skills. They don't know how to "laugh and talk" with people they don't know. They are wallflowers. It's not intentional. They need to go thru Dale Carnegie. Like someone said, once you take the initiative to break thru their shell, they are the best friend and best Elmer you could ever have.
 

WA8ZTZ

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Some of this is just human nature that can be found in any organization.

However, in Ham radio, the seeds for much of this was planted long ago with the so-called "incentive licensing" with all of the various license class. Some how or other attaining your own exclusive slice of HF spectrum became the quest of Ham radio. What really resulted was an attitude that somehow you weren't a real Ham if you possessed a "lower" class license.

So, tired of hearing (not so much on this forum but elsewhere) "I have 50 years experience....". Which implies a license class that required a code test probably in front of an federal examiner. My question... Is that really 50 years experience or rather one year fifty times? None of us are so smart that we know everything. There is always something new to learn if you have an inquiring mind.

IMHO, there should be only one class of Ham ticket and let water seek its own level.
 

Movieman990

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Thanks Golay .....

I'll jump into this with a couple of comments:

First off, one particular CCR, the infamous Bullfrog UV-5R, is responsible for half the hams in our club. If it wasn't for the affordability of these entry price radios, our club would be half the size it is, all kidding aside. And none of these members (seriously, none) that started with a Bullfrog is still using that Bullfrog as their primary handheld. Every one of them has upgraded to a nice Big 3 dual or tri-bander, or a D-Star or DMR radio.

As far as the Old Fart Club, I think it's safe to say many of the Curmudgeons just don't have any social skills. They don't know how to "laugh and talk" with people they don't know. They are wallflowers. It's not intentional. They need to go thru Dale Carnegie. Like someone said, once you take the initiative to break thru their shell, they are the best friend and best Elmer you could ever have.

Very good perspective Golay...thanks for your response.
 
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