Cleveland Browns Stadium UHF Trunked System

Folks,

There is an LTR trunked system listed in the database for Cleveland Browns Stadium on UHF.

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5425

1. I don't believe this has ever been confirmed active as an LTR system
2. There are no talkgroups listed
3. There have been no submissions to the system
4. The license indicates DMR emissions

The note on the system says it was going to be an LTR system to replace 900 Mhz Type II system -- but I have to ask who in their right mind would have replaced a Motorola Type II system with an LTR system.

So, I suspect that IF there is a trunked system online using the frequencies from this license, it is likely going to be a DMR system. But theoretically I guess it could be LTR. One would think though that if it had been an LTR system people would have already programmed it in based upon DB information and would have discovered / submitted talkgroups.

The note on the system in the DB also says it si a low power system. It's licensed for 100w though. Of course, if it is active, I doubt it's on a tower somewhere in the city -- It's probably a the stadium somewhere and would likely have somewhat limited range.

At any rate, if you are within earshot and have the ability to program this system in your scanner as both an LTR System and again as a DMR Trunked system, please do this and let us know what you find. Of course if you are familiar with DSDPlus and know how to use it, that would be an even better option.

License: WQFH480
Frequencies:
451.9125
452.3000
453.0125
461.4875
461.6375
462.45
463.3125
463.5125
463.5625
463.8625
464.025
464.4625

If you are absolutely positive that there is NO system online, LTR or DMR, please report here. If you can confirm that it IS online as either an LTR or DMR system, please submit all relevant information to the existing system in the DB. If you find it is DMR and submit the DMR details to the system, we will build out a brand new entry in the database for it and then deprecate the old one.

Thanks

Is there really nobody in Cleveland that can check into these systems? I'm thinking there is. If you are in Cleveland and can snoop out these systems and just need some guidance, at least make a post and let us know you are there and willing to help out.

Thanks

Mike

I have some notes from previous snoops I am trying to verify but have not had much time this week.

These are the previous notes
451.9125 DCC 2
452.3000 cap+ lcn 2 tg113
453.0125 nothing
461.4875 dcs 144
461.6375 nothing
462.45 07-110 j building Cleveland Clinic ltr
Cap+ DCC 4 ch 5/6 rest
tg 105 tg 116
463.3125 nothing
463.5125 sherwin dcc 6
463.5625 nothing
463.8625 NXDN 96Ran 41
464.025 LCN11 Cleveland Clinic ltr [seen 10,11,12] 11-015, 11-007
464.4625 DCC 7 TC parking

jdolina said:

I have some notes from previous snoops I am trying to verify but have not had much time this week.

These are the previous notes
451.9125 DCC 2
452.3000 cap+ lcn 2 tg113
453.0125 nothing
461.4875 dcs 144
461.6375 nothing
462.45 07-110 j building Cleveland Clinic ltr
Cap+ DCC 4 ch 5/6 rest
tg 105 tg 116
463.3125 nothing
463.5125 sherwin dcc 6
463.5625 nothing
463.8625 NXDN 96Ran 41
464.025 LCN11 Cleveland Clinic ltr [seen 10,11,12] 11-015, 11-007
464.4625 DCC 7 TC parking

Click to expand...

Thanks, John. Whenever you get a chance is fine. I just wanted to 'nudge' the post so that people who might be in a position to check do not forget.

Not many people would care about listening to Lubrizol, so I understand no takers for that one. But for Cleveland Browns stadium I figured a lot of people would like to listen to that one if we had a proper system in the DB for people to listen to. And I suspect right now we do not.

Mike

Per a post from BTromp ( read post ), the Cleveland Browns Stadium LTR system is gone, as well as the Cleveland Browns 900 Mhz Motorola System.

The New system is a DMR system (probably Cap+ / Con+ or CapMax) using frequencies from WQFH480.

If you are local to the area, please program the frequencies on the license in as a DMR Trunked system and see what you hear. If you program it into a TRX or other Whistler DMR scanner, it'll probably scan just fine and you'll be able to hear traffic. If you are programming it into a Uniden DMR scanner, you'll have to set it as a DMR Trunked system and set it to search for the color code. Then you'll have to run LCN Finder to find the LCNs.

It is unknown how many of the frequencies on the license are part of the trunked system. Hoping some of you up in Cleveland area can find out the details.

I have the new system Staged in the database now, where it will remain until it is confirmed to be online and we know at least one active frequency on the system. It will be called "FirstEnergy Stadium", since the name of the stadium changed some years ago.

FirstEnergy Stadium
* DMR Trunked
* WQFH480

451.9125
452.300
453.0125
461.4875
461.6375
462.45
463.3125
463.5125
463.5625
463.8625
464.025
464.4625

Please post your findings here and any submit details about the trunked system here .

Thanks

First try, not much luck.

Last night I programmed two of my scanners (TRX-1 & BCD436HP) with the First Energy Stadium freq's. The 436 was deaf, which wasn't a surprise. The TRX-1 received some broken audio, no TG numbers appeared also no bars for the signal strength.

Today I fired up both scanners again. This time the TRX-1 received some traffic from TG10 with the following RID's 202, 203, 210 multiple hits and 305. I didn't receive enough traffic to determine what TG10 is.

FYI, I live roughly 5 miles south of the Stadium. The topology is an issue. The Stadium is located on the lake shore north of the City of Cleveland. The top of the Stadium is lower than the City's ground level. Also there is another area of high ground blocking my reception from home.

When it comes to monitoring the Stadium, the best bet would be from area's East or West of the City along the shore lines. Or from Canada, it's a straight shot across Lake Erie.

This weekend, time permitting I will make a run to the area where I watch the Air Show. I should be able to use three scanners, this time including the SDS-100 to monitor. I'll post my results.

budevans said:

Last night I programmed two of my scanners (TRX-1 & BCD436HP) with the First Energy Stadium freq's. The 436 was deaf, which wasn't a surprise. The TRX-1 received some broken audio, no TG numbers appeared also no bars for the signal strength.

Today I fired up both scanners again. This time the TRX-1 received some traffic from TG10 with the following RID's 202, 203, 210 multiple hits and 305. I didn't receive enough traffic to determine what TG10 is.

FYI, I live roughly 5 miles south of the Stadium. The topology is an issue. The Stadium is located on the lake shore north of the City of Cleveland. The top of the Stadium is lower than the City's ground level. Also there is another area of high ground blocking my reception from home.

When it comes to monitoring the Stadium, the best bet would be from area's East or West of the City along the shore lines. Or from Canada, it's a straight shot across Lake Erie.

This weekend, time permitting I will make a run to the area where I watch the Air Show. I should be able to use three scanners, this time including the SDS-100 to monitor. I'll post my results.

Click to expand...

That isn't surprising to me. I was pretty sure it's footprint would be minimal. Unfortunately it is not only going to take somebody with the right equipment and time and close proximity to the stadium in order to figure out the system, it's also going to require that the system be busy. And that likely only happens during game days. And if anyone is cclose enough to the stadium during game days, they are probably going to the game and aren't going to be sleuthing out a system.

But I'm sure it's active. At the very least, if / when you get a chance, mark down every freqency you note as being active as well as the color code. That would at least allow us to make the system live in the DB so that people can download it (even though it wouldn't work on Unidens until all LCNs were known). We really need somebody within range with DSDPlus and a scanner in order to figure it out.

On the bright side, at least we were able to finally deprecate the two old systems that obviously weren't in use so they don't show up in the database (or Sentinel or EZ-Scan) anymore.

Thanks Bud.

mike

Were the hits on TG 10 from 464.4625? With those rids looks like the Tower City Parking system you are hearing. I am still looking and waiting for a busy day but have had some hits on the other frequencies not already defined. I believe most of them were encrypted so would not be surprising the 436 was deaf.

Looking at Google maps, both Edgewater Park and Lakewood Park have almost a direct line to First Energy stadium.

budevans said:

FYI, I live roughly 5 miles south of the Stadium. The topology is an issue. The Stadium is located on the lake shore north of the City of Cleveland. The top of the Stadium is lower than the City's ground level. Also there is another area of high ground blocking my reception from home.

When it comes to monitoring the Stadium, the best bet would be from area's East or West of the City along the shore lines. Or from Canada, it's a straight shot across Lake Erie.

This weekend, time permitting I will make a run to the area where I watch the Air Show. I should be able to use three scanners, this time including the SDS-100 to monitor. I'll post my results.

Click to expand...

I'm about 11 miles east of the stadium but topology will probably be an issue as well.

The East 72nd fishing pier is about 4-1/4 miles from the stadium so that or the E 55th Marina parking lot might be a place to monitor that would be far enough away from game day road closures/diversions.

I was able to free up some time this afternoon. So I grabbed the scanners and went to the 49th street park. It sits just south of the I90 shoreway across from the east end of Burke's runways.

I ran the LCN Finder on both the 436 & the 100 for roughly 1-1/2 hours. The 100 came up with 3 LCN's. The 436 came up with 2, both of which the 100 had found. The system is a Cap+.

Below is a picture of the freq's with the three LCN's, following is another picture of the TG's, Slot, CC and RID's that I monitored.

budevans said:

I was able to free up some time this afternoon. So I grabbed the scanners and went to the 49th street park. It sits just south of the I90 shoreway across from the east end of Burke's runways.

I ran the LCN Finder on both the 436 & the 100 for roughly 1-1/2 hours. The 100 came up with 3 LCN's. The 436 came up with 2, both of which the 100 had found. The system is a Cap+.

Below is a picture of the freq's with the three LCN's, following is another picture of the TG's, Slot, CC and RID's that I monitored.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Bud. I'm going to update the DB with those three LCNs. I'll probably just add LCNs 1/2 confirmed right now -- not because I don't necessarily believe LCN 3 to be correct but because I also see the odd color code in there -- and I'm wondering if LCN 3 belongs to another system and that particular color code may have been tied to that same freq/system. Since we don't know the activity on the TGs, we'll just have to sit on them for now. Although I will add appeared to be the most busy talkgroup (105). That way it will show up in Sentinel / EZScan. I believe if there are no talkgroups listed, it won't show up. They probably should go in the wiki, but I guarantee I have no desire or time to add them. (rant: if i could just add them as text and not worry about all the "hooks" that the wiki folks want attached, I'd add it -- but I can't spend 10 seconds of my life adding talkgroups to the wiki and then a whole hour trying to add all of the other things they like). Since this system has its own thread, we'll just reference the TGs here until they are somewhat confirmed as to usage.

I presume the activity was "in the clear" -- is that correct?

Mike

The FirstEnergy Stadium Cap+ system is now live in the DB and will be available for import into scanners from Sentinel/EZscan once the scanner vendors update their data.

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=10205

Mike

mtindor said:

Thanks, Bud. I'm going to update the DB with those three LCNs. I'll probably just add LCNs 1/2 confirmed right now -- not because I don't necessarily believe LCN 3 to be correct but because I also see the odd color code in there -- and I'm wondering if LCN 3 belongs to another system and that particular color code may have been tied to that same freq/system.

Click to expand...

I agree, the #2 color code was a red flag. Also the TG10 that I monitored the day before from my house didn't fall in line with what I monitored Saturday near the Stadium.

mtindor said:

Since we don't know the activity on the TGs, we'll just have to sit on them for now. Although I will add appeared to be the most busy talkgroup (105). That way it will show up in Sentinel / EZScan. I believe if there are no talkgroups listed, it won't show up. They probably should go in the wiki, but I guarantee I have no desire or time to add them. (rant: if i could just add them as text and not worry about all the "hooks" that the wiki folks want attached, I'd add it -- but I can't spend 10 seconds of my life adding talkgroups to the wiki and then a whole hour trying to add all of the other things they like). Since this system has its own thread, we'll just reference the TGs here until they are somewhat confirmed as to usage.

Click to expand...

The traffic that I monitored was very similar to what I hear from the Cleveland Indians Progressive Field system. Maintenance, receipt of deliveries, cleaning (specifically the suites), etc.

mtindor said:

I presume the activity was "in the clear" -- is that correct?

Mike

Click to expand...

Correct, everything was in the clear.

I had about 45 minutes to kill today so I went down to the E55th Marina and monitored from there. Here's what I got when I ran LCN finder and information for color codes.

Fair warning, I am a complete DMR newbie and I've had the DMR option on my scanner for a total of 72 hours or so now - so if I screwed something up, please let me know.



I also heard traffic on TG 102, 103, 106 and 110 in addition to the ones budevans listed above. Unfortunately, I didn't stay have enough time to be able to try to correlate the type of radio traffic with the talkgroup ID.

Based upon the findings of both of you (Bud / BigWonton) thus far, I'm leaning towards it looking something like this:

451.9125 : LCN 1 : Color Code 2
452.3000 : LCN 2 : Color Code 3
462.4500 : LCN 3 : Color Code 4
453.0125 : LCN 4 : Color Code 5
463.5625 : LCN 5 : Color Code 6
463.8625 : LCN 6 : Color Code 7

I'm taking into consideration the fact that perhaps not LCNs were active because the system wasn't super busy, OR that they simply don't have as many repeaters as they do frequencies (which is probably what the scenario is). If we assume that all color codes are correct that BigWonton logged, and that the LCNs are correct that both of you logged, that leaves the items in red as "guesses" that I think are pretty educated guesses.

I'm going to update the DB to reflect that scenario, and then once Sentinel / EZScan update their databases people will likely be able to import the system in and actually monitor it fairly well.

You guys might want to consider programming in a DMR Trunked System with exactly those details above with talkgroup / private wildcards (for TRXs) or ID Search (for Unidens) and then see what happens when you scan that exact configuration as an actual trunked system the next time you are there. Based upon your findings so far, I'm betting that is pretty damned close if not spot on.

You guys have done a great job so far ! I appreciate it, and I would hope that future listeners of the system would appreciate it.

The DB has been updated. My guess is that after a couple more sessions over the course of time, you'll likely either find that more LCNs became active (and only because the system was busier) or that you never hear anything out of the rest of the frequencies (because they might not be turned on / active on the system at the present time).

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=10205

With at least 6 active frequencies on that site, that's a possible 12 talkpaths that can be in use simultaneously. So they may never need to activate all 12 frequencies.

NOTE: There are various reasons why all six of those LCNs were not determined at either monitoring session. If the system is not busy, LCN Finder would not be able to determine the LCN, and sometimes if the system is too busy (too many simultaneous conversions going on), LCN Finder may not be able to determine the LCN.

BigWonton said:

Fair warning, I am a complete DMR newbie and I've had the DMR option on my scanner for a total of 72 hours or so now - so if I screwed something up, please let me know.

Click to expand...

So far your track record seems pretty stellar!

mike

From my home using the TRX-1 in conventional mode, I was able to intermittently monitor two frequencies.

463.5125 with CC6, didn't catch the TG and only caught a part of the audio.

464.4625 with CC7, TG10 and I heard two exchanges. The first was traffic regarding parking passes and the second was a driver reporting his location as "Coming up on Huron and St. Clair". Sounded like a parking or valet service. This matches what jdolina reported.

The traffic on the above frequencies doesn't sound like the Stadium traffic.

Thanks, Bud. Listening in conventional mode, I'm sure it's possible to listen to those freqs even if they are part of the Cap+ system. But it may very well be that some of them are standalone conventional frequencies in use.

The only freqs I would consider extremely solid are LCN 1, LCN 2, LCN3 and LCN 6.

453.0125 and 463.5625 may be just conventional frequencies (which would explain lack of LCN but presence of color code). Then again, they could be part of the system and the LCN order simply wasn't able to be determined within the timeframe LCN Finder was running.

As difficult as it may be for anyone (unless they live nearby and can sit at home with DSDPlus), it's probably going to take somebody monitoring all of those frequencies with DSDPLUS - monitoring each freq until traffic is heard a few times so that DSDPlus can determine the LCN - and with the person making sure to press "D" immediately after switching to a new channel so DSDPlus will erase stored data. We don't want somebody tuning to LCN 1, havin git show Cap+, adn then just tuning to 463.5625 and then think because it still shows Cap+ it is Cap+. Pressing D is something that shuld always be done immediately following a frequency change.

I realize that might not apply to you, because I don't think you use DSPlus -- but for those who do, that is a worthwhile tip -- press "D" after changing frequencies.

Ok back on topic -- it wouldn't surprise me if some of those are standalone DMR.

Mike

budevans said:

From my home using the TRX-1 in conventional mode, I was able to intermittently monitor two frequencies.

463.5125 with CC6, didn't catch the TG and only caught a part of the audio.

464.4625 with CC7, TG10 and I heard two exchanges. The first was traffic regarding parking passes and the second was a driver reporting his location as "Coming up on Huron and St. Clair". Sounded like a parking or valet service. This matches what jdolina reported.

The traffic on the above frequencies doesn't sound like the Stadium traffic.

Click to expand...

Bud - thanks for your updates (and for the help with getting my scanner setup). I thought I had written it down correctly (my notes say 463.5625 for CC6) but it's awful close to 463.5125 that maybe my eyes deceived me.

All the talkgroups I saw today were in the 100 range (with specific references to the stadium - eg, Haslam suite, gates, concessions, etc.) so TG10 doesn't seem to fit.

Next home game is Thursday the 20th - hopefully I can convince my better half to give me some more time to go out for another session.

Also caught the C-130 as (I assume) it was going towards the stadium for the flyover: