different vendor radios on P25 system

speedway_navigator · Sep 5, 2018

Our county has a policy of Motorola only radios on the Motorola phase 1 P-25 system. The logic behind this is the county only wants to support a single vendor's software licenses, programming cables, chargers, etc. Another concern which I'm trying to verify through actual field use is that a non Motorola radio might not perform as well creating a safety concern.

Do any of you have documented cases where a non Motorola radio failed to work on a Motorola system?
I think Motorola's sales team might be spreading doom and gloom warnings (I know, you're shocked that this could happen).

jaspence · Sep 5, 2018

P25

My experience was in the VHF and 900 MHz bands on ham frequencies. I use EFJ 5100 radios on P25 in both of the previously mentioned bands without any problems. Unless the system uses one or more of Motorola propriety add ons, there shouldn't be a problem. I have first hand knowledge of another company using inaccurate information to scare a small city into going digital, so I would be suspicious of any sales pitch that did not back up words with factual information.

IAmSixNine · Sep 5, 2018

If memory serves me correct. Some of the early EFJ P25 radios were Motorola boards/ backs with EFJ fronts. This was to prevent motorola from getting into legal trouble as a sole vendor for P25 systems for the government. Im sure someone else can either correct me or add more info.
But EFJ equipment seems to work well.
I have a BK KNG2 radio that while not on a system in an official capactiy works amazingly well in RX non affiliate mode on several Moto and Harris systems. But in RX only. So not a good comparison actually.

domes · Sep 5, 2018

In theory, there is no such thing as a "Motorola P25 System". The idea of P25 is that it is a generic system built on open interface standards that can be met by any manufacturer's radios no matter who supplied the network. If only one brand of radios can properly work on the system than technically it is not a true "P25".

jaspence · Sep 5, 2018

EFJ 5100

Mine are the newer series which only shares the battery, no internal components.

Project25_MASTR · Sep 5, 2018

domes said:
In theory, there is no such thing as a "Motorola P25 System". The idea of P25 is that it is a generic system built on open interface standards that can be met by any manufacturer's radios no matter who supplied the network. If only one brand of radios can properly work on the system than technically it is not a true "P25".

To an extent. P25 actually does allow for proprietary extras such as data functions (HPD).

GATRRS has an example of issues with subscribers not playing nicely. Motorola blames Kenwood, Kenwood/EFJ blame Motorola for having "Propriatary Features" enabled. Granted, the only place people have really tried to experiment with non-Motorola SU's on that system is with the VHF side of the system. First gen Kenwood radios did not do as well on the performance side (sensitivity issues, roaming issues, general programming issues). Now I hear there have been a few of the newer Viking radios put on and they haven't been received well (though I believe that to be programming error by that particular shop).

KevinC · Sep 5, 2018

It's their system, so they can probably set their own rules. But for basic PTT any P25 trunking radio should work. How well they roam, differences in programming, feature nomenclature, audio differences and such will be your challenges.

wa8pyr · Sep 5, 2018

speedway_navigator said:
Our county has a policy of Motorola only radios on the Motorola phase 1 P-25 system. The logic behind this is the county only wants to support a single vendor's software licenses, programming cables, chargers, etc. Another concern which I'm trying to verify through actual field use is that a non Motorola radio might not perform as well creating a safety concern.

Do any of you have documented cases where a non Motorola radio failed to work on a Motorola system?
I think Motorola's sales team might be spreading doom and gloom warnings (I know, you're shocked that this could happen).

We use non-Motorola radios quite a bit. Apart from tweaking certain settings at the outset they have performed quite well. We've never had a failure.

Around here we merely provide the system for users to talk on, and provide only limited programming and tech support for subscriber units. As long as the radios they buy meet the P25 standards and are approved for use on the system, we can't force outside agencies to use only Motorola; purchasing laws and requirements prohibit it. The only loophole would be if we were providing the radios to user agencies and servicing them ourselves, in which case we could make an argument to stick to a single manufacturer for overall cost and efficiency reasons.

MTS2000des · Sep 5, 2018

We allow non-Motorola subscribers on our system, that being said, user agencies are on their own for support. I have found that some features like ISSI inter-WACN roaming aren't supported (or we can't figure it out), and the problem here is that MSI is under zero obligation to support a non-MSI subscriber, then you get the subscriber vendor who says "well it SHOULD work BUT....we didn't make the infrastructure so..."

Very much the same thing you get when using an unlocked phone on a US carrier. Some are better than others. T-Mobile will at least provide some help, but at the end of the day "you didn't buy your phone from us, so you're on your own to figure it out" and P-25 subscribers are in the same boat. If you can get it to work, and you vet it, great. If not, don't expect either vendor to go out of their way to help you troubleshoot the others' product.

RFI-EMI-GUY · Sep 5, 2018

The whole intent of APCO project 25 was to encourage a single standard for interoperable public safety communications and to encourage a competitive marketplace. Unfortunately it took about 25 years for it to get to a point that most of the proprietary aspects have been washed out. There should be no reason that a contemporary P25 system, even a trunked one , if equipped with P25 9600 control channel will not support multiple vendors.

Simulcast is the one area of concern. The subscribers must be able to decode the linear simulcast transmissions. Harris, Motorola and EFJ radios should be fine.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

TampaTyron · Sep 8, 2018

Certain manufacturers make minor tweaks to their radios/infrastructure which cause radios from other vendors to hve difficulty. My personal favorite is squelch crash on PL reverse burst (180 degrees vs. 120 degrees) and now I see similar behavior on P25 systems with weird audio issues. Basically, certain vendors insert dummy voice frames into the audio path and same vendor radios ignore these frames. Different vendor radios decode these frames and play various sounds: beeps, tones, squelch crash, etc. All it takes is one educated customer to say ......."what is this crap!" and this show captures of the behavior to get people spoiled up. TT

rescue161 · Sep 8, 2018

We have a Harris system and use Harris, Motorola and Relm so far. The only feature that will not work across vendors is OTAP, so if you have a need to program over the air, then you need to stick with one vendor. We routinely use OTAP, but we can't OTAP any non-Harris radios.

speedway_navigator · Sep 9, 2018

I talked with a PSAP admin who said she remembered EFJ emergency buttons had a problem on the Motorola RAN but thought it was a programming deal, it has been long enough since it got resolved she forgot the details.

different vendor radios on P25 system

speedway_navigator

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jaspence

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IAmSixNine

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domes

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jaspence

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Project25_MASTR

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KevinC

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wa8pyr

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MTS2000des

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RFI-EMI-GUY

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TampaTyron

Beep Boop, Beep Boop

rescue161

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speedway_navigator

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