Antenna height

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WX5812

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Hello, I’m just looking for a ballpark answer. I’m going to put a repeater on the top of a 50ft tower. Descent 3db antenna and tower is not on any major hill or anything. 50 Watts coming out of the antenna. What type of range should I expect with 50ft?
Thanks in advance
Wx5atx
 

majoco

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The theoretical radio horizon for a 50ft antenna on the flat is only about 4.6miles but that to someone on the ground - if the other guy has a 50ft mast too, then the distance is about 16miles. The 50watts or 3dB gain is not going to make much difference. Once you start putting in a few metal buildings things can be better or worse. If you really want to know, then you have experiment by radiating a low power signal with some ident and go for a drive.
 

kb5udf

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I believe a bit better

50 foot antenna/repeater
5 foot ht or mobile

Total range to the ht/mobile is about 13 miles per the vhf/uhf line of sight calculator. Now the thing is the details. That 13 miles is ideal terrain, no obstructions, terrain variations or foliage. Foliage can be a big problem uhf and up.

Also generally, all things being equal, and in the clear, you will get more range from vhf ie 150 or so, then you will 450, 800 or 900.
 

jwt873

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A while back, a friend of mine set up a 220 mHz repeater on his 50 foot tower for testing purposes. (Can't remember what antenna he used). For my mobile station using a 1/4 wave antenna, it had an effective range of about 8 miles. I could trip it with my 5 Watt handheld at 4 to 5 miles.

I could work it from my home station 25 miles away. I have a 40 foot tower with a 3dB omni antenna almost at the top. I've always been able to talk to him directly on VHF/UHF simplex.

This is over the flat prairie..
 

dlwtrunked

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A while back, a friend of mine set up a 220 mHz repeater on his 50 foot tower for testing purposes. (Can't remember what antenna he used). For my mobile station using a 1/4 wave antenna, it had an effective range of about 8 miles. I could trip it with my 5 Watt handheld at 4 to 5 miles.

I could work it from my home station 25 miles away. I have a 40 foot tower with a 3dB omni antenna almost at the top. I've always been able to talk to him directly on VHF/UHF simplex.

This is over the flat prairie..

Of course, by "flat", you mean no rise or obstructions above round earth, like the calm ocean--but I will use the term "flat" also, like you, lacking a better term (perhaps "round earth" would be).

Let's do a little calculation. There is simple unquestionable math to predict line-of-sight.
Line_of_sight_distance[miles] = 1.22*(sqrt(transmit_antenna _height [ft]) + sqrt(antenna_height_[ft])) In the above case, this becomes (ignoring the "almost"):
1.22*(sqrt(40)+sqrt(50))=16 miles
If you add say 10 feet to each height for an antennas (your ground plane was shorter), the result becomes 18 miles.

Radio range vs. line of sight will be just insignificantly farther for 220 MHz(unless one has tropo, sporadic_E, etc.) but gain or power is not going to help beyond that.
Hearing it at 25 miles means the path it is not actually flat. I would have been surprised if it were flat" for that distance as finding that for distance that far is extremely hard--this is why the range is often farther than the above calculation.

(If the ground at each tower was 50 ft above the round earth, the above range would would give 24 miles.)
 

dlwtrunked

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50 foot antenna/repeater
5 foot ht or mobile

Total range to the ht/mobile is about 13 miles per the vhf/uhf line of sight calculator. Now the thing is the details. That 13 miles is ideal terrain, no obstructions, terrain variations or foliage. Foliage can be a big problem uhf and up.

Also generally, all things being equal, and in the clear, you will get more range from vhf ie 150 or so, then you will 450, 800 or 900.


"In the clear", on what basis do you mean that? (It is not true if you really mean clear path between.)
 

Murphy625

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We did an actual test at 145Mhz just a couple weeks ago. I live in a semi-hilly, semi-rural, farm-forest area where the elevation changes about 30 feet every so often and has a gradual change of almost 150 feet over the 14 miles we tested.

We used two of the N9TAX antenna's. My antenna was almost exactly 50 feet (to the top of the antenna) and my wife's antenna was about 26 feet to the top of her antenna 14 miles away.

We were able to communicate at 5 watts with a signal strength that was just above the noise floor.

Communication was clear and easy to understand, but not powerful or over-bearing to the noise floor. I think another three or four miles and she might have dropped out.

I was using 50 feet of RG8/U and she was using 20 feet of RG58. Both radios were Yaesu.
 
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