SDS100 DMR Formats IP Site Connect, Capacity Plus, Capacity Max, Connect Plus

scanner_geek · Oct 1, 2018

I have a SDS100 and works great. I am trying to monitor a company that is using XPR4350 UHF Mobile DMR radios. I can use "close call" to detect the frequency and DCS tones sometimes , but there are times I can hear them talking on the radio (in front of me) and the close call is blank, it won't lock on to anything. I bought the Moto TRBO upgrade but was wondering does it cover IP Site Connect, Capacity Plus, Capacity Max, Connect Plus are there any future upgrade ?

Does anyone have any ideas or comments why I can't pick up the radio traffic ? I can hear the chirp when they key up but close call won't pick up anything from 5' to 1/2 mile.

And I can hear them on different UHF conventional channels and the SDS100 will lock on with no problem. It's when I hear the chirp I can't pick them up on the SDS100.

Thanks,

jeffhochberg · Oct 1, 2018

I don't think whether they use Site Connect or any other of the backend connectivity features have any impact on your ability to listen to what's coming off the repeater. Those options are for repeater communication to other repeaters on other networks over the Internet or the ability to remotely administer Mototrbo repeaters over IP based networks.

It's more likely that they are using encrypted communication to prevent people from listening in. If that's the case, you would need to have the encryption key or you're not going to be able to listen.

Even if you did have the key, you'd need to monitor using another type of system that would allow you to input the encryption key. Consumer scanners are not designed with decryption in mind. You would either need some form of a SDR based scanner or a DMR radio provisioned with the key and configured for the channel/timeslot/color code.

Sorry to say that I think you're SOL.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

hiegtx · Oct 1, 2018

scanner_geek said:
I have a SDS100 and works great. I am trying to monitor a company that is using XPR4350 UHF Mobile DMR radios. I can use "close call" to detect the frequency and DCS tones sometimes , but there are times I can hear them talking on the radio (in front of me) and the close call is blank, it won't lock on to anything. I bought the Moto TRBO upgrade but was wondering does it cover IP Site Connect, Capacity Plus, Capacity Max, Connect Plus are there any future upgrade ?

Does anyone have any ideas or comments why I can't pick up the radio traffic ? I can hear the chirp when they key up but close call won't pick up anything from 5' to 1/2 mile.

And I can hear them on different UHF conventional channels and the SDS100 will lock on with no problem. It's when I hear the chirp I can't pick them up on the SDS100.

Thanks,

UPMan has said in the past that Close Call does not work on simplex DMR transmissions because it is looking for a continuous signal. A unit, hand held or mobile, that is using DMR is only transmitting half the time, dividing the transmission between the two slots.
See this post and the thread it is in: https://forums.radioreference.com/report.php?p=2673931

That thread is about the 536HP, but I believe the same comments would apply to the SDS100 as well. A transmission on the input of a system would be roughly the same thing as a simplex transmission that is not going into a trunked system.

Add: Here's a thread, asking the same question, on the SDS100, with the same answer: http://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-tech-support/372188-dmr-simplex.html#post2951484

jasonhouk · Oct 1, 2018

You'll have to create a FL with their system programmed in properly to monitor unless they are encrypted.

Houk

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

scanner_geek · Oct 2, 2018

Could someone help me enter single DMR frequencies in my SDS100 ? I have 6 frequencies I would like to enter into my SDS100 to listen to a Motorola Capacity Plus system. I opened Sentinel, created a FL, and selected one channel DMR but don't see where I can enter the frequency. This DMR stuff is all new to me, but if someone wants to walk me through the process I would be very appreciative.

scanner_geek@yahoo.com

jasonhouk · Oct 3, 2018

scanner_geek said:
Could someone help me enter single DMR frequencies in my SDS100 ? I have 6 frequencies I would like to enter into my SDS100 to listen to a Motorola Capacity Plus system. I opened Sentinel, created a FL, and selected one channel DMR but don't see where I can enter the frequency. This DMR stuff is all new to me, but if someone wants to walk me through the process I would be very appreciative.

scanner_geek@yahoo.com

What's the FCC Call Sign and if available the RR SYSID of the system you're trying to program?

Houk

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

UPMan · Oct 3, 2018

If it is a 6 frequency DMR system, then it should be programmed as MotoTRBO, not One-Channel. Frequencies are assigned to a site.

scanner_geek · Oct 3, 2018

I don't think what I am trying to listen to is a trunk DMR system, but rather a single DMR frequency.

Will the "close call" lock on to all DMR single frequencies and DMR trunk systems ? I have been told both ways that it will and will not lock on to Motorola Capacity Plus ?

What would be the best way to listen to Capacity Plus and Capacity Max ?

Ubbe · Oct 4, 2018

It will lock on to all signals that have a full continous transmission for a few seconds which includes all DMR basestations. But CloseCall is a frequency counter and need the signal to be conciderable stronger than anything else in the same frequency band that the filter covers in the scanner. I have never had any close call hits from sites that have several channels at the same site and antenna and that transmits at the same time.

My Optoelectronics Scout40 on the other hand manage to do that and seems to pretty much alternate between the frequencies it detects. I think it is because it has a faster detect time and different frequencies has different propagation and reflections while you move around the site that will give different signal strenght from different frequencies at different times.

/Ubbe

UPMan · Oct 4, 2018

If it has 6 frequencies, it is not likely to be a One-Frequency Trunked system. The best way to listen to Capacity Plus and Capacity Max is to program them as MotoTRBO. You will need to determine and assign the LCN for each frequency. If you would post the requested info (call sign, where is the system, etc) you could possibly get some actual help instead of wild guesses.

scanner_geek · Oct 17, 2018

Ok, here is the DMR Cap+ I am trying to listen to. How would I program this into my SDS100 ? How do you figure out the LCN order ? Can anyone tell me how to listen to this system ?

I will pay for someone to help me, to enter this into my SDS100, figure out the LCN and talkgroups.

Anyone....Bueller ?

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9086

scanner_geek@yahoo.com

buddrousa · Oct 17, 2018

Why are you dodging the question where are and who is the frequencies you are trying to listen to?
What you are doing is like asking for the answer to a math question and not telling any of the numbers involved.
Is this in Orlando?
Is this in Minnesota?
Without all of the information like UpMan said you will not get a true answer.

RRR · Oct 17, 2018

If a DMR (Mototrbo) single freq. (2 slot) repeater is transmitting on "slot 1", then it is not providing a "Continuous signal". It is pulsing out roughly one half of the time or less, depending on how the repeater was programmed (IE; sometimes less than half the time to help prevent "collisions".

I don't see how the scanner can pick up the repeater putting out 1/2 the signal on one slot, but not the portable on one slot, unless this is just on "close call" only, in that case, then does "close call" not pick up any "one freq" DMR systems, -unless slot 1 and slot 2 is in use at the same time?

(As most of you already know, Mototrbo IP site connect is very common, and uses this type of slot 1 and/or 2 transmitting sometimes, to give 2 channels on repeaters, that would historically be only 1 channel.) So, with that being said, the same thing is happening with the portable or mobile unit when they are transmitting to the towers, they are transmitting half of the time...

jasonhouk · Oct 17, 2018

scanner_geek said:
Ok, here is the DMR Cap+ I am trying to listen to. How would I program this into my SDS100 ? How do you figure out the LCN order ? Can anyone tell me how to listen to this system ?

I will pay for someone to help me, to enter this into my SDS100, figure out the LCN and talkgroups.

Anyone....Bueller ?

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9086

scanner_geek@yahoo.com

1. Import the attached hpe file into sentinel.
2. Write to SDS100 and monitor this list exclusively.
3. Go to Menu/Analyze/LCN Finder the press "E" and select system and site.
4. Let LCN finder run until all LCN's are found. Depending on system activity this can take minutes or days
5. When LCN's are found press to scan. The SDS should ask you if you want to save LCN's press "E"

Houk

UPMan · Oct 17, 2018

RRR said:
If a DMR (Mototrbo) single freq. (2 slot) repeater is transmitting on "slot 1", then it is not providing a "Continuous signal". It is pulsing out roughly one half of the time or less, depending on how the repeater was programmed (IE; sometimes less than half the time to help prevent "collisions".

My understanding is that the repeater output always transmits on both slots (even if one slot is idle...in which case that slot's data is essentially "idle" markers).

Ok, here is the DMR Cap+ I am trying to listen to. How would I program this into my SDS100 ? How do you figure out the LCN order ? Can anyone tell me how to listen to this system ?

According to the database, this is a 3 frequency (not 6 frequency as you originally posted) system. Also, the dB is showing LCNs (albeit unconfirmed) for the system (the small numbers before the frequency). Program the system as MotoTRBO, enter the frequencies w/LCN into a site, then scan. If it is missing comms, LCN might not be right...in which case run LCN Finder to determine the correct LCN assignments.

Ubbe · Oct 17, 2018

All basestations that use time division technology with 2 or more timeslots always transmits continously in all timeslots. Mobile and portables transmit only in its own timeslot as it otherwise would interfere with someone elses transmission.

CloseCall works with both 2 slot DMR and Tetra that uses 4 timeslots. Cellular GSM uses 8 timeslots but have too wide frequency deviation that neither CloseCall or Scout40 can handle. Some digital frequency counters like Digital Scout and Aceco can detect one slot transmissions of most digital formats including cellular.

/Ubbe

scanner_geek · Oct 17, 2018

Thank You Houk

I am very grateful for creating that FL import.

If you private message me your Email, I will PayPal you a couple dollars for your time.

This DMR thing is new to me and trying to learn how it works.

Thank You

RRR · Oct 17, 2018

So basically, "Direct talk" (Mobile to mobile, /to portable, or portable to portable) would not be able to be monitored by the SDS100?

scanner_geek · Oct 17, 2018

Houk,

I did everything like you said.

When I came to "3. Go to Menu/Analyze/LCN Finder the press "E" and select system and site"

It said Select System, NO system Found matching Your Entry.

What can I do now ?

scanner_geek · Oct 17, 2018

Also is there a way to add more frequencies then what you already listed ?

If I add more frequencies will the LCN analyzer just ignore them if they are not part of the trunk system?

I was going to add every UHF frequency I could find in FCC database that is licensed to Bair's Electronics Service and see what happens.

Right now I keyed up the radio on the trunk system and it didn't come through on the FL you sent me or captured by Close Call, but did hear it key up on another radio....I am a end user on the system.

What would be the next step to figure this system out?

SDS100 DMR Formats IP Site Connect, Capacity Plus, Capacity Max, Connect Plus

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