SDS100/SDS200: Scanner seems deaf on VHF High

Status
Not open for further replies.

tampatracker

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,241
Hello all. I finally made the move to purchase the SDS100 since I wanted wait for some bugs to get resolved and for the big battery. I received it yesterday and went through my checklist of things to test to make sure it was working as advertised. Imagine my surprise when testing the weather mode (channel hold, F button, button #6) when I find I am only receiving my local weather station and that's it, not even the station 30 miles away. I am using a D130NJ Diamond Super Discone Antenna on a forty foot mast. In all fairness I have not upgraded to the latest beta firmware release https://forums.radioreference.com/h...275-sds100-firmware-1-06-00m-public-beta.html and will do that as soon as I get back to town. I receive the 40 mile NOAA stion on my 436 with the RS 800 duck. I realize that 700 and 800 MHz is this radios strong suit, but I expected better VHF Hi performance with this radio, especially with the price tag. Has anybody had or have a similar result with this? My vendor suggested I try the attenuation mode as he thought the radio might be overloaded, but this seems a bit strange considering the second nearest station is only 30 miles out. He also suggested I check my location setting to make sure they're set appropriately. Any and all suggestions are welcome, Thanks.
 

W4KRR

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 1, 2001
Messages
3,437
Location
Coconut Creek
I expected better VHF Hi performance with this radio, especially with the price tag. Has anybody had or have a similar result with this?


My experience with VHF high band is the same as you are experiencing. If you upgrade to the latest firmware you may see slight improvement, but overall, about any other scanner I own will outperform the SDS100 in the VHF high band. I also use NOAA weather frequencies as the basis for my observations.
 

Ubbe

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
9,046
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Did you guys see the post from a SDS100 user that had the same problem with bad VHF and also 400MHz band reception and then the whole scanner got totally deaf in all bands? He sent it in for repair and they replaced the J401 connection that connects two circuit boards and returned it and it was working again and had the same bad reception in VHF and 400MHz. One would think that if Uniden thought it didn't receive as it should when they tested it that they would have fixed it.

But then his SDS100 went deaf again and this time it was replaced and it turned out that the new SDS100 had same or better reception than his other Uniden scanners. The firmware was the same, so either the tolerance spread of the receive chip are too wide or it is a new hardware design.

Either way you should send in your scanner for repair with a remark that it doesn't perform as expected in VHF. Uniden must step up and replace the low performing receiver chips with samples of higher quality, maybe it's a bad batch in some scanners, or replace the RF board with the new mark-II one, if that exists.

/Ubbe
 

tampatracker

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,241
Did you guys see the post from a SDS100 user that had the same problem with bad VHF and also 400MHz band reception and then the whole scanner got totally deaf in all bands? He sent it in for repair and they replaced the J401 connection that connects two circuit boards and returned it and it was working again and had the same bad reception in VHF and 400MHz. One would think that if Uniden thought it didn't receive as it should when they tested it that they would have fixed it.

But then his SDS100 went deaf again and this time it was replaced and it turned out that the new SDS100 had same or better reception than his other Uniden scanners. The firmware was the same, so either the tolerance spread of the receive chip are too wide or it is a new hardware design.

Either way you should send in your scanner for repair with a remark that it doesn't perform as expected in VHF. Uniden must step up and replace the low performing receiver chips with samples of higher quality, maybe it's a bad batch in some scanners, or replace the RF board with the new mark-II one, if that exists.

/Ubbe
Thanks for the quick reply. Do you think some vendors might have "a better stock" than others, or is it a total crap shoot at this point. I ask as I am thinking of returning this one to the vendor for a refund then ordering one from one with a better track record
 

rbrtklamp2

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
847
Location
Dupage County, Illinois
I think it's a crap shoot at this point you never know how old the stock a vendor has is they may have just received them but they could be new old stock from the main warehouse.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

Hit_Factor

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
2,439
Location
Saint Joseph, MI
I am thinking of returning this one to the vendor for a refund then ordering one from one with a better track record.

Why would you dump it on the vendor when Uniden has the warranty? That vendor is going to incur real costs, up to the cost of the radio, because you won't follow the warranty as outlined in the documentation that came with the radio.
 

sibbley

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
1,529
Location
Nazareth, Pennsylvania
I had the same problems on VHF/UHF analog with my original SDS. Radio went deaf after about a month and a half, so ended up at Uniden Repair. Long story short, after the second time at repair, Uniden sent me a factory refurbished unit as a replacement.

The refurb is a night an day difference from the original. VHF and UHF analog are now comparable to 436/536/396xt.

VHF/UHF Digital on the new unit are better too.

I am running the latest beta release.
 

tampatracker

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,241
Because they sold me an inferior product and I do not want to have to send it to Uniden for a lengthy repair which may or may not work when I can just simply return it and get the refund.
 
Last edited:

tampatracker

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,241
Whatever. I think for the price of this scanner you should get a working unit. If you don't think it's fair to return it and try to get one that works, that's on you.
 

tumegpc

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
1,032
Location
Southern Oregon
Because they sold me an inferior product and I do not want to have to send it to Uniden for a lengthy repair which may or may not work when I can just simply return it and get the refund.

I sold mine and took a loss but I'm glad I don't have to deal with the nonsense. There ain't no firmware that's going to fix the underlying hardware problems. Stay with the 436HP or TRX-1 and wait and see what Whistler has to offer.
 

seth21w

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
1,017
Location
Somewhere monitoring the air.
Hello all. I finally made the move to purchase the SDS100 since I wanted wait for some bugs to get resolved and for the big battery. I received it yesterday and went through my checklist of things to test to make sure it was working as advertised. Imagine my surprise when testing the weather mode (channel hold, F button, button #6) when I find I am only receiving my local weather station and that's it, not even the station 30 miles away. I am using a D130NJ Diamond Super Discone Antenna on a forty foot mast. In all fairness I have not upgraded to the latest beta firmware release https://forums.radioreference.com/h...275-sds100-firmware-1-06-00m-public-beta.html and will do that as soon as I get back to town. I receive the 40 mile NOAA stion on my 436 with the RS 800 duck. I realize that 700 and 800 MHz is this radios strong suit, but I expected better VHF Hi performance with this radio, especially with the price tag. Has anybody had or have a similar result with this? My vendor suggested I try the attenuation mode as he thought the radio might be overloaded, but this seems a bit strange considering the second nearest station is only 30 miles out. He also suggested I check my location setting to make sure they're set appropriately. Any and all suggestions are welcome, Thanks.

Was yours the small battery version or the new batch big battery? I have a new battery unit and my vhf is working fine with the 1.05.00 firmware and up! Even more improved on the 1.06.00 beta.
 

radio3353

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
1,497
I had the same problems on VHF/UHF analog with my original SDS. Radio went deaf after about a month and a half, so ended up at Uniden Repair. Long story short, after the second time at repair, Uniden sent me a factory refurbished unit as a replacement.

The refurb is a night an day difference from the original. VHF and UHF analog are now comparable to 436/536/396xt.

VHF/UHF Digital on the new unit are better too.

I am running the latest beta release.

Wait. You paid for a brand new radio, it was suboptimal, you returned it to repair and got a refurb in return? And you are happy? I don't understand. Why would they not send you a new radio? Were you not within warranty?
 

JamesO

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
1,814
Location
McLean, VA
Hello all. I finally made the move to purchase the SDS100 since I wanted wait for some bugs to get resolved and for the big battery. I received it yesterday and went through my checklist of things to test to make sure it was working as advertised. Imagine my surprise when testing the weather mode (channel hold, F button, button #6) when I find I am only receiving my local weather station and that's it, not even the station 30 miles away. I am using a D130NJ Diamond Super Discone Antenna on a forty foot mast. In all fairness I have not upgraded to the latest beta firmware release https://forums.radioreference.com/h...275-sds100-firmware-1-06-00m-public-beta.html and will do that as soon as I get back to town. I receive the 40 mile NOAA stion on my 436 with the RS 800 duck. I realize that 700 and 800 MHz is this radios strong suit, but I expected better VHF Hi performance with this radio, especially with the price tag. Has anybody had or have a similar result with this? My vendor suggested I try the attenuation mode as he thought the radio might be overloaded, but this seems a bit strange considering the second nearest station is only 30 miles out. He also suggested I check my location setting to make sure they're set appropriately. Any and all suggestions are welcome, Thanks.

My SDS100 appears to be approximately equal or slightly better in the VHF High band than my 436HP, no problem receiving NOAA in the house on either unit and even my dedicated weather radios have a hard time in the house.

Maybe there was a bad batch or problem with a run of the SDS100 units?

If I have time, I may try to test and compare the 2 radios with a variable attenuator on an off air signals and also on a signal generator.
 

tampatracker

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,241
Was yours the small battery version or the new batch big battery? I have a new battery unit and my vhf is working fine with the 1.05.00 firmware and up! Even more improved on the 1.06.00 beta.
Well, I just updated the firmware to the 1.06.00 beta but from reading the description of the improvements from UPMan I'm not expecting much since I'm not going to upgrade this radio to DMR or NXDN ready yet till I figure out what to do with this radio. Mine shipped with the big battery.
 

seth21w

Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Messages
1,017
Location
Somewhere monitoring the air.
Well, I just updated the firmware to the 1.06.00 beta but from reading the description of the improvements from UPMan I'm not expecting much since I'm not going to upgrade this radio to DMR or NXDN ready yet till I figure out what to do with this radio. Mine shipped with the big battery.

The vhf is significantly better on the newer firmwares than say the factory load firmware. But if its not good on vhf after the update i would say maybe call uniden and send in for repair.
 

kruser

Active Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
4,992
Location
West St Louis County, MO
My SDS100 appears to be approximately equal or slightly better in the VHF High band than my 436HP, no problem receiving NOAA in the house on either unit and even my dedicated weather radios have a hard time in the house.

Maybe there was a bad batch or problem with a run of the SDS100 units?

If I have time, I may try to test and compare the 2 radios with a variable attenuator on an off air signals and also on a signal generator.

I'd be very interested in your results if you do run a test using a SG for the signal.
With my SDS, any moderately strong VHF signals can and do wipe out the front end in my SDS when it is receiving a VHF P25 control or voice channel. Our statewide sites make use of many unused paging frequencies in the 152 MHz segment. When a paging transmitter comes on the air that is also in the 152 swath of the band, it wipes out my P25 control or voice channel totally.
I can replicate this using my SG by setting it about 1 MHz away from the tuned frequency on the SDS. Hook a rubber duck VHF antenna to the SG output and start raising its output power. I start seeing the RSSI value change on the SDS display at -7 dBm output from the SG. Oh, I'm using a rooftop discone for a receive antenna on my SDS so the SG's signal must go through my ceiling and to my discone maybe 15 to 20 feet above my ceiling.
As I crank the SG higher than -7 dBm, the SDS starts being swamped by the SG's signal. Eventually, the SDS loses its lock and any reception of the control channel or any voice channel on a frequency near 152 MHz.
I did some tests the other night and found that a -7 dBm SG output will start to affect the SDS reception when the SG's frequency is near 7 MHz or less away from the tuned frequency of the SDS.
This explains the short signal loss I see when monitoring the statewide system and the paging sites are not transmitting, it's the nearby EOC which still uses some VHF frequencies in the 154 and 155 MHz ranges for public safety and some fire tone out use.

I also tested VHF analog on the SDS using the same SG settings. Tune a nearby or somewhat distant NOAA station and set the SG to output near the 162 MHz range and it does not seem to desense the SDS front end. Even with the SG cranked to +14 dBm output I can still hear the NOAA signals, both nearby and the two distant stations.
So the issue I see with my SDS in at least the VHF band seems to really only be a problem when the SDS is set to a digital mode. I've only tested it with P25 signals but I suspect it will behave poorly in the other digital modes as well.
When I did the analog tests above with the NOAA signals, I did see the SDS RSSI value change as the SG increased in output level but at no time did its front end go into desense.

I don't know if you can replicate my findings as you may not have any digital signals in the VHF high band to test with but it's definitely a big problem here. My SDS is totally deaf to P25 signals when other relatively strong signals are on the air within about 6 MHz from the tuned frequency of the SDS. My x36HP and older x96XT models continue receiving the VHF digital signals without any problems. They are not even affected by the nearby paging signals using the same 152 MHz segment that my P25 signals are using!
As far as overall sensitivity in the VHF band, my SDS seems to be about the same as my older Uniden's when testing Analog performance.
I've not tested the UHF range yet.
 
Last edited:

TailGator911

Silent Key/KF4ANC
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
2,687
Location
Fairborn, OH
I ordered and rec'd my SDS100 with the smaller battery the very last week before the big battery units were shipped. My vhf/uhf receive is on par or the same as my 536 and any other analog scanner I own. I must have really lucked out with my radio as I have had zero - zippo - problems with it. I have run it thru the tests and jumped it thru the hoops and very satisfied with the performance. On a rooftop antenna (Diamond discone) I can hear vhf paging 30 miles away, in Preble County. Nothing negative to report from me. I feel for the folks who have problems with their SDS100. That must be very frustrating. I hope they either get their radios repaired, or hope it is fixed by fw update, or they get a replacement scanner in good working order. (or, if applicable, figure out what they are doing wrong i.e., their settings, programming, etc)


JD
kf4anc
 

tampatracker

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,241
Ok, I've had a couple of days now to really investigate in more depth how the SDS stand up to my 436. Side by side about two feet apart using two identical RS 800 ducks the marine band reception actually is better on the SDS (at least at the time I compared it). The sensitivity is a bit sharper and the transmissions sound a bit crisper. On the air band the SDS is blown away by the 436. Rail reception is a little better on the 436. So I'm still on the fence about what to do, but I am a little bit more forgiving at this point. I am not a techie so this is the best comparison so far I've been able to come up with and thanks to kruser for your detailed description. I have no way to compare them on VHF LO since there is nothing here to listen to except the state D.O.T. and I've never heard anything from them anyway using any of my scanners. However in defense of the SDS's advertised performance on P25 systems it has delivered so far. I have yet to pick up any of the outlying P25 counties that I get on my 436 and by outlying I mean 20-40 miles, but the jury's still out on that one. I still don't get why the scanner is so unresponsive on the NOAA frequencies.
 

woodpecker

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
729
I'd be very interested in your results if you do run a test using a SG for the signal.
With my SDS, any moderately strong VHF signals can and do wipe out the front end in my SDS when it is receiving a VHF P25 control or voice channel. Our statewide sites make use of many unused paging frequencies in the 152 MHz segment. When a paging transmitter comes on the air that is also in the 152 swath of the band, it wipes out my P25 control or voice channel totally.
I can replicate this using my SG by setting it about 1 MHz away from the tuned frequency on the SDS. Hook a rubber duck VHF antenna to the SG output and start raising its output power. I start seeing the RSSI value change on the SDS display at -7 dBm output from the SG. Oh, I'm using a rooftop discone for a receive antenna on my SDS so the SG's signal must go through my ceiling and to my discone maybe 15 to 20 feet above my ceiling.
As I crank the SG higher than -7 dBm, the SDS starts being swamped by the SG's signal. Eventually, the SDS loses its lock and any reception of the control channel or any voice channel on a frequency near 152 MHz.
I did some tests the other night and found that a -7 dBm SG output will start to affect the SDS reception when the SG's frequency is near 7 MHz or less away from the tuned frequency of the SDS.
This explains the short signal loss I see when monitoring the statewide system and the paging sites are not transmitting, it's the nearby EOC which still uses some VHF frequencies in the 154 and 155 MHz ranges for public safety and some fire tone out use.

I also tested VHF analog on the SDS using the same SG settings. Tune a nearby or somewhat distant NOAA station and set the SG to output near the 162 MHz range and it does not seem to desense the SDS front end. Even with the SG cranked to +14 dBm output I can still hear the NOAA signals, both nearby and the two distant stations.
So the issue I see with my SDS in at least the VHF band seems to really only be a problem when the SDS is set to a digital mode. I've only tested it with P25 signals but I suspect it will behave poorly in the other digital modes as well.
When I did the analog tests above with the NOAA signals, I did see the SDS RSSI value change as the SG increased in output level but at no time did its front end go into desense.

I don't know if you can replicate my findings as you may not have any digital signals in the VHF high band to test with but it's definitely a big problem here. My SDS is totally deaf to P25 signals when other relatively strong signals are on the air within about 6 MHz from the tuned frequency of the SDS. My x36HP and older x96XT models continue receiving the VHF digital signals without any problems. They are not even affected by the nearby paging signals using the same 152 MHz segment that my P25 signals are using!
As far as overall sensitivity in the VHF band, my SDS seems to be about the same as my older Uniden's when testing Analog performance.
I've not tested the UHF range yet.

The R836 TV tuner chip in the SDS is designed for 6-8MHz bandwidth TV signals, it has a pretty poor in band third order intercept point but it improves out of band although its still not great.

If you try and listen to signals and have strong signals within the tracking filter bandwidth you are likely to suffer blocking or sensitivity loss, the only option then is to reduce the gain or add attenuation, the same as you have to do on an rtl dongle.

The inband iip3 has a quoted range of -7 to -14dBm, out of band it improves with a range of 0dBm to +8dBm.

Its not a high performance RF design, these chips are found in $20 TV tuners where signals are normally moderate strength you don't have close in interfering signals to worry about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top