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Cross-Vendor Encryption

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cifd64

cifd64

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Good afternoon, group.

There has been a discussion in my shop about cross-vendor encryption with P25 Phase I. The obvious question, can you replicate the encryption key for one vendor on a subscriber from a different vendor. A trunk system is switching to P25 P1 soon and the agency is taking the chance to compare different models. The infrastructure (including KMF) is provided by one vendor.

Is it possible to have a KMF from both vendors attached to the system, or is there a translator that can accept UKEK/TEK sets from both vendors?

Thank you in advance.
 
AYoung2600

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cifd64 said:
Good afternoon, group.

There has been a discussion in my shop about cross-vendor encryption with P25 Phase I. The obvious question, can you replicate the encryption key for one vendor on a subscriber from a different vendor. A trunk system is switching to P25 P1 soon and the agency is taking the chance to compare different models. The infrastructure (including KMF) is provided by one vendor.

Is it possible to have a KMF from both vendors attached to the system, or is there a translator that can accept UKEK/TEK sets from both vendors?

Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for all manufacturers, but I have personally set up Kenwood and EF Johnson radios on a Motorola P25 system with a Motorola KMF with no issues.
 
Thunderknight

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I have KVL keyloaded Harris with an AES key and had them talk to APX radios no issues. I have not used a KMF though. If you work for a PS agency, you could try reaching out to NLECC to ask them.
 
sflmonitor

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cifd64 said:
Hmm. How about Motorola to Harris Infrastructure?

Anyone?
Click to expand...

I’m not sure if this is what you’re looking for, but Harris subscriber units will work on a Motorola infrastructure, including OTAR via a Moto KMF. But as thunderknight said, your best bet is to consult with the NLECC in Orlando. They are currently working with two vendors on the same system.
 
MTS2000des

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KMFs are available from many vendors and I know of one local system that uses a KMF from another vendor on their MSI trunking system. Like CSSI/ISSI, the setup can be involved, but it is doable. AES-256 is the standard for P-25, so from a subscriber point of view, keysets should be agnostic to the subscriber so long as the radio supports the algorithm.
 
rescue161

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The system that I manage (Harris) uses AES OTAR and we have Harris, Motorola and Relm subscriber units. All of them OTAR just fine.
 
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rescue161 said:
The system that I manage (Harris) uses AES OTAR and we have Harris, Motorola and Relm subscriber units. All of them OTAR just fine.
Click to expand...

That's nice to know, I had heard otherwise. Someone said EF Johnson radios would not OTAR, can anyone confirm or deny that?

Our county has a Motorola only policy and has decided to go with ADP encryption next year on the state's Motorola P-25 system. This was done on a cost savings basis.
 
wa8pyr

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slicerwizard said:
Is Motorola still offering ADP?
Click to expand...

For now; I've been led to believe that single-key AES256 is now being offered as standard equipment in place of ADP although I have yet to confirm this.

As to the original question, I've not had any problems getting both Motorola and Harris radios to work together using AES256 on a Motorola P25 system. Haven't tried Kenwood, RELM or Tait although we have radios from those companies.
 
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I was told the ADP policy is from 6 years ago, it may have been state of the art then. The county east of us was/is using it to some degree, and it was cheaper.

I found an EF Johnson paper on ADP stating DHS grants can't be used if ADP is the only encryption in the radio.
 
krokus

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speedway_navigator said:
I was told the ADP policy is from 6 years ago, it may have been state of the art then. The county east of us was/is using it to some degree, and it was cheaper.

I found an EF Johnson paper on ADP stating DHS grants can't be used if ADP is the only encryption in the radio.
Click to expand...

ADP was not state of the art, but is included in many Motorola radios. Until recently, Motorola was the only company that supported it, but I recently found out that other companies now support it, too.

The DHS limitation is regarding using a compliant encryption method, which ADP is not. AES is the current standard, and most companies have an option for supporting it.

Sent using Tapatalk
 
cifd64

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Lots of valuable information here. So here is where I stand. Using a simplex channel in Digital, TX NAC 293/RX F7E.

Used KVL to load APX8K, success.
Loaded same key on P7200/XL-200, Success.
Moto to Moto, success.
Harris to Harris, success.
Harris to Moto, success.
Moto to Harris, failure...

Seems Harris is not rxing the key properly. Seems odd, as they are both loaded correctly. The XL-200 reads "RX KEY: NO RX KEY" I also noticed, the Moto will open when the Harris tx's in the clear with key enabled. Sure that is an MC setting (will dig into that later).
 
rescue161

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Are you sure that the Harris is transmitting encrypted? Make sure that you have the right key selected in RPM under the P25 Conventional tab under Private Options. It defaults to unencrypted. Choose the algorithm and the select the key.
 
cifd64

cifd64

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K, so chalk one up for language barriers. The key loading system for our legacy vendor represents Key ID in DEC. The other, in HEX. Go figure. I want to thank you all for the input. The responses helped.
 
krokus

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speedway_navigator said:
Our county has a Motorola only policy ...
Click to expand...

I missed that tidbit, earlier. That should be investigated for a xonflict of interests, fraud, and/or a pay off made to county supervisors. That policy is, at the very least, doing a disservice to the county residents, as some other brands are just as good, and cost significantly less money.

Sent using Tapatalk
 
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