Manhattan Beach looking at ditching Fire Dept.

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krazybob

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I am a bit surprised these well-to-do (or perhaps better off than most) full service cities in the South Bay are looking at ditching their Fire Dept's.

Hermosa already has, Rendo already has requested a full proposal study, and now Manhattan Beach.

I know El Segundo decided against contracting not longer. Interesting.

http://file.lacounty.gov/SDSInter/b...udyfromtheCityofManhattanBeach.Sept272018.pdf
They can't afford to expand their services and they cannot afford to maintain benefits. California really is bankrupt once you add in the cost of benefits when people retire. As an example, my high-school girlfriend is a top-tier attorney for a state agency. She's the chief counsel. Already making $250k a year, she's about to cash out and will retire at 80%. Cities can't afford this. I have two friends for the Sheriff's Department that have paid into their retirement but both had salaries and benefits in excess of $200k. They cash out just fine. Great people that have work their asses off for it to.

Manhattan Beach has an average household income of $139k. The rest of the South Bay communities drop progressively from there. One would think with their combined resources they can handle Mutual Aid by creating their own Mutual Aid Pact but they haven't done it that way. It seems everybody has a different way of doing things.

I realize most of you don't take me seriously but I actually do have some insight on this. San Bernardino County Fre Department has made leaps and bounds in taking over the entire County one proposal at a time. There is some holdouts but their goal is to provide services to all of the communities.

Up here in the mountains where I live there are two holdouts. Running Springs Fire Department, a full service, full-time Fire Department, and Arrowbear, a volunteer fire department. Oops, forgot Big Bear Lake City Fire Department. Not to be confused with Big Bear City. Calfire has an influence here as well. Figuring out who covers what doesn't matter because they have what's called Auto Aid.

The standard sales pitch is that since the county has deeper pockets and a much larger fleet of fire resources they can better serve the communities than the communities themselves. As it stands, Arrowbear is only able to respond to Medical calls and Running Springs automatically sends the paramedic unit duplicating the efforts. The county is already pitching arrowbear, which is a small community to begin with, with providing full-time services. They're doing it through Running Springs anyway. Running Springs is said to be holding out but they too have a point where they will have to seriously consider the proposals.

Is it possible that the South Bay communities are doing the same thing with LA County Fire? As you probably know LA County Fire took over Hacienda Heights Fire even though it's in Orange County. They had a better bid. That was what 10 or 15 years ago? Everything today seems to be about consolidation.

Los Angeles City already has just about every city that they provide fire Services to. I'm trying to think of one city that doesn't use LA City Fire.

All of the others have gone to ICIS.

This being the case, what makes Los Angeles County think they're going to roll out a countywide radio system with LA-RICS? ICIS already has the backbone in place. Add cells and Link them via microwave. They've just acquired Santa Monica.

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Eng74

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I am sure they are looking at contracting because of retirement costs. Most departments have what is called a Joint Powers Agreement (JPA), Orange County is a good example. There are no lines whoever is closest to the call, County or City unit is dispatched.
 

Markb

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I think you're thinking of an automatic aid agreement. This is what allows for the boundary drops that are used in OC and many other locales.

A Joint Powers Authority is an agency such as Metro Cities Fire Authority (a.k.a. MetroNet), which is a dispatch center where all of the participating cities have a stake in the authority vs. Contracting with an outside agency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_powers_authority


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PaulNDaOC

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As compared to taxpayers in the county fire district that are paying about 17% of each property tax dollar to the Fire Dept, plus a parcel tax, Manhattan Beach is budgeting about 8%.

It might be why they got into a panic when Hermosa was no longer backing them up constantly on EMS calls. They are not properly funding paramedic resources. If you look at recent news articles since Hermosa came across, MB is complaining about Mutual Aid response times from LA County now.

Sure PERS is part of it, but so is other spending. There is a lot of money in this city with a modest population and a high assessed valuation.
 

krazybob

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As compared to taxpayers in the county fire district that are paying about 17% of each property tax dollar to the Fire Dept, plus a parcel tax, Manhattan Beach is budgeting about 8%.

It might be why they got into a panic when Hermosa was no longer backing them up constantly on EMS calls. They are not properly funding paramedic resources. If you look at recent news articles since Hermosa came across, MB is complaining about Mutual Aid response times from LA County now.

Sure PERS is part of it, but so is other spending. There is a lot of money in this city with a modest population and a high assessed valuation.
I absolutely understand. It sounds like once it he's afraid of raising property taxes. This is a multi factorial problem. Besides the aspect of raising taxes or PERS or whichever entity they pay into their retirement with, you also have firefighters that are making an excess of $200,000 because of overtime. You have Captains and Battalion Chiefs and Division Chiefs etc. making more than that. Just pop your favorite firefighters name into transparent California and look at their base pay and overtime. Don't factor in their benefits although those benefits do cost the entity money.

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1942LA

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Is it possible that the South Bay communities are doing the same thing with LA County Fire? As you probably know LA County Fire took over Hacienda Heights Fire even though it's in Orange County. They had a better bid. That was what 10 or 15 years ago? Everything today seems to be about consolidation.

I think you meant La Habra.?.
 

krazybob

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I think you meant La Habra.?.
DOH! I was only half wrong. I was thinking of La Habra Heights. I seldom monitor OCFA and concentrate on the San Bernardino Mountains these days. I don't even pay attention to Los Angeles County much any more except that I do have a remote feed in Whittier and a remote feed in Palmdale. I can hear much of those OCFA from up here where I'm located but not from Whittier where I am blocked by the La Puente Hills. I actually do have a radio programmed for OCFA with a yagi pointed at OC.

Having grown up in La Habra for a good portion of my life we still consider La Habra Heights part of La Habra. But you are correct. As I recall it was in about 2005 or 2006. It was surprising because you would have expected OCFA to take it over. I wonder who they get better service from? Mutual Aid must be a real giggle. Especially since you've got OCFA on 800 and LACOF on 470. LAFD remains on 800. Just like up here in the San Bernardino Mountains. Cal Fire and Forest Service are on VHF and of course County fire is now on 700/800 digital. So much for teamwork.

Will they ever learn?

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PaulNDaOC

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La Habra Hts also asked for an informal survey about 4 years ago, and said thanks, but no thanks after they saw the cost.

They have auto aid in parts of the city and if they get a second call in the city, county will cover that call as well as if they were to get sent to a structure and saw a hint of smoke the county wou,ld respond the world in a heartbeat

They have it about as good as it gets now.
 

krazybob

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just below you is Yucaipa, that is CalFire covered and not SBCoFD on normal instances

I know where Yucaipa is and whose jurisdiction it is as well. There are very large, grassy fields down at the bottom of this SR38 and the Mill Creek ranger station at Bryant leading up into the mountains. In fact, 4 Paul 5 is the resident deputy that Patrols that area and he extends up the mountain to Seven Oaks and Angelus Oaks.
 
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