moonbounce
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Does a USB3 drive offer any advantage over USB2 when running SDRSharp?
USB3 drives
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What is your application exactly? There isn't a direct correlation, other than if you're using an external drive to save and replay IQ files. Then a fast drive would transfer that data faster, though an SSD on USB3 would be best.
If you meant USB3 for the dongle itself, then there wouldn't be as the USB host on the device is USB2. Having said that, the way that data is managed on some USB3 chips can lead to better saturation at the maximum USB2 speed. In other words, potentially fewer delayed or lost packets when the bus is maxing out.
If you meant USB3 for the dongle itself, then there wouldn't be as the USB host on the device is USB2. Having said that, the way that data is managed on some USB3 chips can lead to better saturation at the maximum USB2 speed. In other words, potentially fewer delayed or lost packets when the bus is maxing out.
br0adband
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I would say nope but it depends on the hardware. RTL sticks can't put USB through any effort at all with their 2.4 MHz cap so the amount of actual bits coming from the RTL stick are nothing at all, a "walk in the park" so to speak. Contrast that with something like the Airspy, SDRplay, or HackRF or even BladeRF and then things change because of the raw amount of data those devices are capable of supplying with their vastly increased bandwidth capabilities: 10 MHz, 8 MHz, 20 MHz, respectively, with the BladeRF even advertising "enough bandwidth to saturate the full duplex 5Gbps USB 3.0 link" so that's a lot of data potentially.
If you are using RTL sticks, USB 2.0 works perfectly and is so well established I doubt you'll ever encounter an issue with that type of connection. USB 3.0 technically is still considered "new" to the world of computing and is still maturing in some respects meaning the driver side of things because not all of them are equal, not by a long shot.
If you're not using the high end SDR hardware which can just flood the SDR software with data I wouldn't think it's a big deal. Sure USB 3.0 is faster but there are plenty of reports from plenty of various SDR device owners that have or did have issues when they first started using those ports with their hardware and it almost always ends up being USB 3.0 driver related.
If you are using RTL sticks, USB 2.0 works perfectly and is so well established I doubt you'll ever encounter an issue with that type of connection. USB 3.0 technically is still considered "new" to the world of computing and is still maturing in some respects meaning the driver side of things because not all of them are equal, not by a long shot.
If you're not using the high end SDR hardware which can just flood the SDR software with data I wouldn't think it's a big deal. Sure USB 3.0 is faster but there are plenty of reports from plenty of various SDR device owners that have or did have issues when they first started using those ports with their hardware and it almost always ends up being USB 3.0 driver related.
moonbounce
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Thanks for the replies, the reason i was asking was that i was going to but a laptop either a lenovo x220 with the US3 or a Lenovo t420. The x220 has USB3 drives and I thought it might be a better deal. Anyway maybe I will stick with T420.
Moonbounce.
Moonbounce.
br0adband
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If I had the choice between the two models, the x220 or the t420, I'd choose the t420 because it's just more capable overall not to mention larger and more comfortable to use but I'm 6'6" tall and small tiny laptops just ain't really my thing. The t420 also has the optical drive capability (can swap that out for an Ultrabay battery if so desired, I think), the potential for a higher resolution display, and even upgrading the processor - the x220's CPU is soldered on iirc, I might be wrong on that aspect.
But then again the price would probably be a big factor too, because if an x220 crossed my path for a crazy low price compared to a t420 I'd probably grab it even in spite of me preferring a larger device with at least a 14" display on it.
Also, is it an actual x220 or is it an x220t meaning the tablet version of that model 'cause if it's the tablet one and the price is right, snag it if you're into such aspects. The x220 is a great piece of hardware in any respect so, do a pros/cons list for yourself and then make a decision, I suppose.
Good luck.
ps
The x220 uses a 7mm hard drive which is not the "industry standard" size of 9.5mm meaning if you wanted to upgrade the storage device you'd have to make sure you bought a 7mm hard drive - most SSDs are 7mm tall anyway (in their packaging). The x220 also has an internal slot for an mSATA drive (I think, it might be something else) so that's a consideration as well. The t420 uses the industry standard 9.5mm hard drive form factor.
But then again the price would probably be a big factor too, because if an x220 crossed my path for a crazy low price compared to a t420 I'd probably grab it even in spite of me preferring a larger device with at least a 14" display on it.
Also, is it an actual x220 or is it an x220t meaning the tablet version of that model 'cause if it's the tablet one and the price is right, snag it if you're into such aspects. The x220 is a great piece of hardware in any respect so, do a pros/cons list for yourself and then make a decision, I suppose.
Good luck.
ps
The x220 uses a 7mm hard drive which is not the "industry standard" size of 9.5mm meaning if you wanted to upgrade the storage device you'd have to make sure you bought a 7mm hard drive - most SSDs are 7mm tall anyway (in their packaging). The x220 also has an internal slot for an mSATA drive (I think, it might be something else) so that's a consideration as well. The t420 uses the industry standard 9.5mm hard drive form factor.
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moonbounce
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Thanks brOadband there is also a dell e6410 with an intel i5 560m for a lot less, like close to $100 dollars difference. I am just thinking along the lines of future proofing. The main function will be to run dsd any version and sdrsharp. Any thoughts.
moonbounce
moonbounce
br0adband
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The Dell Latitude E6410 is a fantastic piece of hardware - I'm a huge fan of Latitudes, having owned a D430/D630/E6400/E6410 and now an E6420. Rock solid hardware (that is, depending on the condition at the time of purchase of course), highly reliable, Intel-based through and through (might have a Broadcom Bluetooth or Wi-Fi card however), and just awesome laptops, highly recommended.
If you can get one for ~$100 less than the ThinkPad (whichever one you were planning to get) I would recommend you do that instead because you'd then have $100 for upgrades like a bigger faster hard drive or a small cap SSD (you can get 120GB SSDs nowadays for under $75), or perhaps you could use that ~$100 towards more SDR hardware, who knows.
But right now if I had the choice between the x220, t420, or the E6410, I'd take the E6410 any time and twice on a Sunday.
Just my opinion, mind you, but they really are great machines. ThinkPads are great too, don't think I'm disrespecting them because I've owned dozens of those over the past 20+ years too but, Dell Latitudes just do it right in my opinion. ThinkPads can have "whitelists" in the BIOS which prevent you from upgrading the wireless cards and they have some other artificial limitations for no good reasons - the Dell Latitudes are wide open and work with anything, have a better form factor (in my opinion, again) and are just awesome.
Hell, with a 12-cell battery slice on that E6410, going mobile would give you 12 to 15+ hours of battery life if you have the 6-cell or 9-cell battery in place also.
I'm babbling now but I really do love the Latitudes, they just work.
ps
Realize that because of the age of the E6410 however it does use a 1st gen Core processor, that i5 is more than enough to do DSD+, SDR#, and many many other things at the same time. Getting 4GB of RAM in it is recommended if it doesn't have that much already, and it would also be a great machine for tinkering around with Linux if you're so inclined to play with GNURadio/OP25/Gqrx/etc and much much more. It supports a 1st gen Core i7 as well so keep that in mind too - and it can max out at 8GB of RAM (2x4GB) even though Dell says the limit is only 4, it will work with 8GB in it too.
If you can get one for ~$100 less than the ThinkPad (whichever one you were planning to get) I would recommend you do that instead because you'd then have $100 for upgrades like a bigger faster hard drive or a small cap SSD (you can get 120GB SSDs nowadays for under $75), or perhaps you could use that ~$100 towards more SDR hardware, who knows.
But right now if I had the choice between the x220, t420, or the E6410, I'd take the E6410 any time and twice on a Sunday.
Just my opinion, mind you, but they really are great machines. ThinkPads are great too, don't think I'm disrespecting them because I've owned dozens of those over the past 20+ years too but, Dell Latitudes just do it right in my opinion. ThinkPads can have "whitelists" in the BIOS which prevent you from upgrading the wireless cards and they have some other artificial limitations for no good reasons - the Dell Latitudes are wide open and work with anything, have a better form factor (in my opinion, again) and are just awesome.
Hell, with a 12-cell battery slice on that E6410, going mobile would give you 12 to 15+ hours of battery life if you have the 6-cell or 9-cell battery in place also.
I'm babbling now but I really do love the Latitudes, they just work.
ps
Realize that because of the age of the E6410 however it does use a 1st gen Core processor, that i5 is more than enough to do DSD+, SDR#, and many many other things at the same time. Getting 4GB of RAM in it is recommended if it doesn't have that much already, and it would also be a great machine for tinkering around with Linux if you're so inclined to play with GNURadio/OP25/Gqrx/etc and much much more. It supports a 1st gen Core i7 as well so keep that in mind too - and it can max out at 8GB of RAM (2x4GB) even though Dell says the limit is only 4, it will work with 8GB in it too.
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moonbounce
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Thanks brOadband I will take your very valued perspective into consideration. I will get back to you with my choice of laptops. Thanks again for taking the time to respond, your view in my opinion are highly valued.
br0adband
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And if you need help (if you get the Latitude) just ask. Some of the drivers for it are notoriously tough to track down, especially the specific driver for the security interface from Broadcom - Dell offers it but you have to install a bunch of other non-related and bloated things just to get that one device working even if you don't use it. It may or may not have a fingerprint ID biometric scanner on that E6410 you're looking at but regardless, the driver is required either way.
I'm around whenever, drop me a PM if needed as this thread has gone way off course so far.
I'm around whenever, drop me a PM if needed as this thread has gone way off course so far.
br0adband
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Depending on the specs of that t420 that moonbounce is looking at I might agree but, I'll bet they're going to be similarly configured (the t420 should be using the 2nd gen Core CPUs, however) and with the E6410 coming in at ~$100 less, that could prove to be the deciding factor considering.
He'll (or she'll) figure it out.
He'll (or she'll) figure it out.
moonbounce
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Thanks again for your replies I guess it is going to be between the T420 and the e6410 i might hedge on the t420 because it is newer but any other thoughts would be appreciated, This computer is basically to run SDR Sharp and DSD,
br0adband
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I'd still get the E6410 just because of that fairly large price difference, that's ~$100 you can use to get items for your SDR hobby: more RTL sticks or better ones if you have the original R820T-based models, antenna(s), cables, connectors, etc. All the software is free so that's a non-concern to begin with but, I mean, $100 is $100 man, think about it.
The t420 is a great machine, and yes it's newer, and yes it should have a 2nd gen Core processor in it so that's a plus sure but the 2nd gen Core CPUs aren't that much more powerful overall than the 1st gen.
If they were the same price, I'd still lean towards the E6410 but I would end up choosing the T420.
Then I'd resell it for a profit and get even more than the $100 difference you're looking at with the E6410 consideration, but that's just me.
The t420 technically is a better overall piece of hardware, yes, so if you're willing to spend that $100 more then go for it. For me it's about the specs in the long run, and a concern for me is the GPU (the graphics chip) on both laptops. They'll most likely be the stock Intel GPU but one or both of them could have discrete GPUs (from ATI on the ThinkPad with Nvidia on the Dell). If one has a discrete GPU and the other doesn't, that's a point of contention for me, meaning if the E6410 has the Nvidia Quadro (which it might) I'd take it over the stock Intel on the t420 depending.
Bleh... I could go on for hours with this so, look at the specs, figure out what you want, then buy it.
The t420 is a great machine, and yes it's newer, and yes it should have a 2nd gen Core processor in it so that's a plus sure but the 2nd gen Core CPUs aren't that much more powerful overall than the 1st gen.
If they were the same price, I'd still lean towards the E6410 but I would end up choosing the T420.
Then I'd resell it for a profit and get even more than the $100 difference you're looking at with the E6410 consideration, but that's just me.
The t420 technically is a better overall piece of hardware, yes, so if you're willing to spend that $100 more then go for it. For me it's about the specs in the long run, and a concern for me is the GPU (the graphics chip) on both laptops. They'll most likely be the stock Intel GPU but one or both of them could have discrete GPUs (from ATI on the ThinkPad with Nvidia on the Dell). If one has a discrete GPU and the other doesn't, that's a point of contention for me, meaning if the E6410 has the Nvidia Quadro (which it might) I'd take it over the stock Intel on the t420 depending.
Bleh... I could go on for hours with this so, look at the specs, figure out what you want, then buy it.
moonbounce
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The Lenovo t420 won out, picking it up tomorrow night, the Dell 6410 looked pretty worn so I didn't want to take the chance, Thanks again.
br0adband
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Hope it all works out in the long run and the t420 provides years of service.
moonbounce
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Thanks brOadband. that is the scenario I am hoping for. I did learn one thing and that is while the USB3 is backward compatible with USB2, in order for it to work you have to have a USB3 device otherwise it is of no benefit. A USB2 device will not be any faster being plugged into a USB3 drive. I am sure most people here know that but for the benefit of those who don't, I thought I'd post it.
Moonbounce
br0adband
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Yah, that's fairly well known these days, USB 3.0 has been around just long enough so that most people have worked out the bugs they have with using that technology. The biggest tip I can offer is make sure - make absolutely certain - that you are using the very latest USB 3.0 device drivers for the USB controller on that t420 laptop - the reason I say this is because USB 3.0 took some time to mature (much longer than USB 2.0 did, actually) and the device drivers were in a somewhat constant state of flux during the past few years until we're now at a point where they are pretty solid and stable for any USB 3.0 controllers.
I'm not talking about device drivers for USB 3.0 devices themselves, I'm talking about the drivers for the USB 3.0 controllers that allow devices to connect to the USB 3.0 ports and be utilized.
Having said that, just make sure you grab the latest official ones from Lenovo's support site - I think from what I've read they should provide the most current ones and they shouldn't give you many problems at all. If those from Lenovo don't function properly, try and figure out the manufacturer of the USB 3.0 controller itself (it's not Lenovo, I assure you) and locate the latest directly from them. For example my Dell Latitude E6420 is made by Dell but obviously the motherboard is made by some company (Foxconn iirc), the processor is by Intel, the Bluetooth is by Broadcom, and so on. While I have 4 USB 2.0 ports (3 actually + one eSATA/USB 2.0 combo port) that are part of the Intel chipset this laptop also has an NEC USB 3.0 device controller on it as well but Dell didn't give us any USB 3.0 ports in the hardware.
Kinda stupid and the only way to make use of that is to either by the bay module (replaces the optical drive) which provides 2 actual physical USB 3.0 ports) or get a docking station that has one or two USB 3.0 ports in that itself.
So, my laptop is USB 3.0 ready to go, but thanks to Dell making a stupid decision it doesn't have actual USB 3.0 ports - they have to be purchased separately.
Companies are really freakin' stupid sometimes, geez.
Anyway, good luck with the purchase and if you have questions just ask, you might also consider joining the ThinkPads forum (not an official Lenovo site but loaded with info) or perhaps stop by the Lenovo forums at NotebookReview for more info as well. Both places are excellent resources for ThinkPad owners and can help with most anything.
Have fun, always... and just call me bb, it's much easier to type.
I'm not talking about device drivers for USB 3.0 devices themselves, I'm talking about the drivers for the USB 3.0 controllers that allow devices to connect to the USB 3.0 ports and be utilized.
Having said that, just make sure you grab the latest official ones from Lenovo's support site - I think from what I've read they should provide the most current ones and they shouldn't give you many problems at all. If those from Lenovo don't function properly, try and figure out the manufacturer of the USB 3.0 controller itself (it's not Lenovo, I assure you) and locate the latest directly from them. For example my Dell Latitude E6420 is made by Dell but obviously the motherboard is made by some company (Foxconn iirc), the processor is by Intel, the Bluetooth is by Broadcom, and so on. While I have 4 USB 2.0 ports (3 actually + one eSATA/USB 2.0 combo port) that are part of the Intel chipset this laptop also has an NEC USB 3.0 device controller on it as well but Dell didn't give us any USB 3.0 ports in the hardware.
Kinda stupid and the only way to make use of that is to either by the bay module (replaces the optical drive) which provides 2 actual physical USB 3.0 ports) or get a docking station that has one or two USB 3.0 ports in that itself.
So, my laptop is USB 3.0 ready to go, but thanks to Dell making a stupid decision it doesn't have actual USB 3.0 ports - they have to be purchased separately.
Companies are really freakin' stupid sometimes, geez.
Anyway, good luck with the purchase and if you have questions just ask, you might also consider joining the ThinkPads forum (not an official Lenovo site but loaded with info) or perhaps stop by the Lenovo forums at NotebookReview for more info as well. Both places are excellent resources for ThinkPad owners and can help with most anything.
Have fun, always... and just call me bb, it's much easier to type.
moonbounce
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Thanks bb, my computer ( t420 ) doesn't have the USB3 the Lenovo x220 does but after reading about all the problems with the drivers I decided to forgo the x220 and stick with the T420. BTW I have added those link to my favs .
Moonbounce
,
.Moonbounce
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I use a USB3 drive when making 10mbps IQ recordings from my Airspy. Makes a big difference vs USB2 (as it should, with the amount of data that you are moving).
moonbounce
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Is Airspy a USB3 device? From what I read unless the device that is transferring information to the computer is a USB3 device then it will only transfer at USB2 speeds even though it is plugged into a USB3 port? If that is not correct let me know as I haven't bought my computer yet and there is still time to change my purchase from the t420 to the x220 that has a USB3 drive.
Thanks
Moonbounce
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