Good Morning Skip

[NoCoFire]

Good Morning,

I thought that you may be interested that this morning on my way into work St. Johns FD was coming into my mobile radio on a skip. I am located in Northern New York on the Canadian Border. It was on one of our tactical vhf channels and the conversation was only one way but it was as clear as if the dispatcher was in the next town. Something about St. Johns Engine 119 or 19 going to a Coast Guard Station and also something about St. Paul FD. I always find it interesting and when this happens.


Our tactical firegound channel is 154.250 and the St. Johns channel is off from .250 but it was very clear.

Greetings from Northern New York and have a safe weekend.

 

[jeffmulter]

There is a "Johns Island" in S.C., but I'm not familiar with a St. Johns in this state. Or a St. Paul.

There is a St. Johns County in Florida, just south of Jacksonville on the east coast. I hear them here on a couple of occasions each year. Anything's possible, but I presume you may have heard them via an intermediary repeater ... which can give you the effect of making the signal sound slightly off frequency.

There is a St Paul Fire Department near Rochester, which may be close to you, being along the Canadian border.

 

[NoCoFire]

Thanks Jeff,

I may be mistaken and as you can figure out I am new to this community (join date 6/2010) and although I have been involved in public safety for about 13 years I have never jumped into this side of things.

Obviously I had no idea where it came from so I did some searching and found some information that leads me to believe this is where the signal originated.

The information that lead me to believe this was that there is a "St John’s Fire" listed under the FCC database using 154.280 from the St. Johns Fire District located in Charleston County South Carolina, on John's Island FCC Callsign KNDB820 Details. This location is close to a St. Paul’s Fire District St. Pauls Fire District located in Hollywood SC neighboring St. Johns Fire District. (On Johns Island... interesting it’s not St. Johns Island, and further interesting, a St. Paul’s fire district in Hollywood SC - I’m used to a fire district being named after its town but there may have been a consolidation of districts over the years or it covers a large geographic area, or it is just how they do things)

That information peaked my interest because it was a St. Johns next to a St. Paul’s and it was very close to the water where a potential Coast Guard station could be... but it’s not, the closest CG station is in Charleston. Charleston is close to St. Johns Fire district so I was not sure.

What do you think? Am I way off?

Thanks for your reply and additional information.

 

[SCPD]

Sounds Legit to me! being near the coast of SC. Coastal ducting gives us fits on VHF 151/159 on Forestry Frequencies..........

 

[SCPD]

Jeff

I have your area now to deal with! Lesslie Repeater on 159.255 and 151.235in 136.5

 

[brian]

I'm not sure that St. Johns or St. Pauls FDs use VHF for tone-out any more. These are departments that cover portions of southern Charleston Co, St. Johns covers Kiawah Island where I visit on occasion. I believe notification for these departments is strictly via the Palmetto P25 trunked radio system these days. I haven't logged any VHF activity in a while from there. But I may be wrong, someone local please correct me if that's the case.

 

[scanchs]

VHF is still being used...

I'm not sure that St. Johns or St. Pauls FDs use VHF for tone-out any more. These are departments that cover portions of southern Charleston Co, St. Johns covers Kiawah Island where I visit on occasion. I believe notification for these departments is strictly via the Palmetto P25 trunked radio system these days. I haven't logged any VHF activity in a while from there. But I may be wrong, someone local please correct me if that's the case.

brian,

St. Johns and St. Pauls FD's still use VHF for tone-out and simulcast dispatch. I heard them as recently as yesterday on the conventional frequencies I have programmed in my scanners...

I wouldn't be a bit surprised that someone in NY might be hearing these stations. We hear VHF skip from the East coast of Florida in the Charleston area from time to time...

ScanCHS

 

[bpalmer]

This may help. There is a St Paul's FD in Charleston County but they are on the Charleston County system, I believe Project 25. I am not aware of them using VHF any more

There is a St Johns Fire County fire department in the St Augustine Florida area that I hear on skip days on their 154.415 pageout frequency.. To help judge, if you are hearing Rescue so and so a lot that is mostly likely is them as for what ever reason many ambulance's in Fl use Rescue for a ambulance name rather then say Medic or EMS you also would hear names like Flager and route A1A. or a mile marker on I-95.

Hopes this helps rather then confuse.

 

[brian]

Thanks ScanCHS for correcting me.

 

[scanchs]

More Info...

Thanks ScanCHS for correcting me.

brian,

No problem! That's what we're here for - to help each other...

...
This location is close to a St. Paul’s Fire District located in Hollywood SC neighboring St. Johns Fire District. (On Johns Island... interesting it’s not St. Johns Island, and further interesting, a St. Paul’s fire district in Hollywood SC - I’m used to a fire district being named after its town but there may have been a consolidation of districts over the years or it covers a large geographic area, or it is just how they do things)
...

NoCoFire,

I think your third guess might be the correct one. Here's a link to the Charleston County Fire Internet web page; you can see for yourself -> Fire

There simply doesn't seem to be any particular naming convention for the fire departments here...

ScanCHS

 

[bpalmer]

Okay I didn't know there was a St Johns FD in Charleston County. I thought years ago St Pauls gave up their conventional when they went to the Chs County TRS now Project 25. In any event I looked at the DB and saw no conventional for St Pauls Scanchs would you like to share with us.

I suspect the naming convention of some of those departments starting that with 'st'. come from large church parishes..St Andrews, St Johns and St Paul's. Though they are building out there is a rural aspect to each of these three ( I know a big huh for St Andrews yes it still has rural areas in it still)

 

[SCPD]

VHF Fire Depts in SC

Please email to kb4rrc@yahoo.com if you have any questions on VHF Fire North of Santee River and North of I-20 west of Columbia.,. I have to maintain an accurate database of them all as radio reference is not always 100%.

Billy I have an 800 radio on the Pal 800 system now. I have about given up on Ham radio and gone more scanning... Looking at a BC346 or PSR-500.. jury is still out as the reveiews are neck and neck.

 

[scanchs]

Okay I didn't know there was a St Johns FD in Charleston County. I thought years ago St Pauls gave up their conventional when they went to the Chs County TRS now Project 25. In any event I looked at the DB and saw no conventional for St Pauls Scanchs would you like to share with us.

I suspect the naming convention of some of those departments starting that with 'st'. come from large church parishes..St Andrews, St Johns and St Paul's. Though they are building out there is a rural aspect to each of these three ( I know a big huh for St Andrews yes it still has rural areas in it still)

Billy,

Sorry, but there's really nothing more to share. My comments were based on empirical data (i.e., from listening to VHF frequencies in the area). Last Sunday, I had a scanner set up to monitor VHF conventional, so I would hear more fire calls (there's so much traffic on the Palmetto 800 and P25 systems, it's fairly easy to miss things). Anyway, I heard St. Johns FD go out on a structure fire. I didn't look at the display, because the frequency wasn't important at the time. A little later, I heard the St. Johns dispatcher call St. Pauls to request mutual aid. The dispatcher told St Pauls they were engaged in a two story structure fire, and they were going to be there for a while. The dispatcher asked St. Pauls if they would move an engine to St. Johns for backup while they were out on the call...

That's all there is for now. The frequency the OP mentioned (i.e., 154.250) is actually tagged as Caromi Village FD in my scanner. There are also several other VHF fire frequencies in that group, such as 154.160, 154.175, 154.205, 154.280, 154.340, 154.430, 155.070, 155.145, 155.610, and 155.700. Unfortunately, that traffic could have been on any of these frequencies. I will just have to pay more attention the next time I hear those FD's on VHF conventional...

ScanCHS

 

[bpalmer]

Scanchs,

I understand. As I suspect those two departments do most smaller departments maintain some VHf capacity as that is an easy and realitvly cheap way to get to off duty and volunteer personnel in times of emergencies.

I just recall the VHF dispearing after the 800MHz came into play in CHS county. I must have missed it.

 

[NoCoFire]

Thanks!

To all posters,

Thanks for your replies. This was one of my first posts ever on RR and I really appreciate your candor and business like postings. Apparently I have started other conversations and it looks like you all have a really tight community, very professional! Have a great weekend.

NoCoFire, Madrid, NY
FN24

 

[jeffmulter]

NoCoFire -

Thank you for doing the information research you did prior to posting your original post. I've spend alot of time researching tropo DX loggings over the years, and apologize for not doing some research before I posted a reply.

I may have also been suffering from Florida-on-the-brain, as I had just come back from the Gulf Coast the night before posting ... hence the St Johns County response. With your asistance, though, I am now aware of two more fire districts in the Low Country of S.C.

Just curious, NoCoFire ... As best I can tell, your tac channels are not repeated. Is that correct, and would you know if there is a PL tone set on the receive side of the tac channel you heard St. John on ?

BTW - I see in the FCC database that you are getting another repeater to compliment St. Lawrence County's fire dispatch channels. The repeater out will be on 154.145 MHz.

SCFCPD7 -

Sorry to read that you are reducing your involvement in ham radio. I've read in the past about your participation in helping one of the coastal region clubs get a repeater up and on-the-air. The expertise that you and Mr. Mitchell at SCFS have is hard to replace.

I'm also sorry that you're picking up the Lesslie site, but I'm only sorry because that probably means your workload is being increased. I don't monitor the site alot, even though I'm nearby in Indian Land, but my impression is that the Lesslie site usually just requires preventative maintenance. I don't recall ever hearing any of the automated site status announcements, and have never logged other agencies being rebroadcast through the site.

BTW - given the choice between the Uniden 346xt and the PSR500, go with the latter scanner. The 346 is a nice scanner with a good feature set, but digital reception will be more important as agencies make the transition.

Question, Donald - Do all the SCFS dispatchers work out of a central location, or are they working from the regional facilities ? I saw an Adobe document recently with SCFS staff photos recently, as became curious whether SCFS had gone the same route that SCHP did.

 

[SCPD]

SCFC Dispatch Centers

"Pee Dee" The Prime site is in Florence on the Darlington/Florence Line on US52 ...24/7 never closes
"Coastal" is at the Walterboro Airport (basically) 7AM-9PM
"Piedmont" is near Jct SC34 and I-26 near Newberry 7AM-7PM
5 consoles at Pee Dee and Coastal and 3 at Piedmont. Usually 2 to 3 operators on duty at each site.
1-800-777-3473 is routed by regional county in the daytime and it comes back together when a particular center closes.

The consoles are 1996 Orbacom and each center has a local cabinet for its third of the state and then there is a master cabinet in Columbia for statewide Coverage. I can sit in Florence and talk on Long Mt. in Oconee County or Beaufort repeater in Beaufort. The "local"cabinet is used by console 4 and 5 in Coastal and Pee Dee and is a backup for overflow within the region or if the network goes down we still have 1/3 state coverage at each center. Consoles 1,2 and 3 are switchable to the statewide or local system...

Repeaters/Bases are MTR2000s
Control stations are tone remoted CDM1550s
Supervisors use CDM1550s
Fire "wardens" use PM400s

All Handhelds are Kenwood TK-2170s and we use 800 XTS2500s for Law Enforcement and Communications.
Pee Dee has a 800 Spectra on Forest roam (digital) that hits the state system on the DARLINGTON Tower and is available on the consoles statewide.

Thats it in a nutshell!

 

[NoCoFire]

Just curious, NoCoFire ... As best I can tell, your tac channels are not repeated. Is that correct, and would you know if there is a PL tone set on the receive side of the tac channel you heard St. John on ?

BTW - I see in the FCC database that you are getting another repeater to compliment St. Lawrence County's fire dispatch channels. The repeater out will be on 154.145 MHz.

Jeff,

Yes our tac channels are not repeated. I have no way of knowing if a pl tone was on the receive side as I was receiving this on a Mot CM300.

Good news on the additional repeater. Those are hard to come by up here because we need permission from the Canadian Government and the FCC, I believe more specifically "Industry Canada" but I am not 100% sure on that. Not that Industry Canada makes this difficult but it adds another layer of bureaucracy and even though we are "rural" we are relatively close to major Canadian population centers like Ottawa and Montreal so my impression is that freq. pairs are hard to come by. (BTW the news on the new repeater is news to me! - Can you tell me where to find it?) I looked here, ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WNKG573 - SAINT LAWRENCE, COUNTY OF - Frequencies Summary but I do not see anything about a new repeater.

 

[jeffmulter]

Good news on the additional repeater. Those are hard to come by up here because we need permission from the Canadian Government and the FCC ... so my impression is that freq. pairs are hard to come by. (BTW the news on the new repeater is news to me! - Can you tell me where to find it?) ... but I do not see anything about a new repeater.

Looking through the license modification filings, your county asked for permission to add a couple of repeaters on 154.145, and one on 158.760 during 2008.

In early 2009, the county was advised that Canada had concerns about interference to several of its licensees on those frequencies. It was recommended that St Lawrence County conduct an over-the-air test on the frequencies to listen and measure for actual interference to the Canadian agencies.

It appears a test was done on 154.145 MHz., and the results were not favorable to St Lawrence County.

No further testing appears to have been tried. The FCC then twice requested SLC to respond, in writing, on what the county planned to do regarding their license modification.

After 10 months, the FCC dismissed the license modification, leaving the original license intact, but removing 154.145, 158.760 and the inputs for those requested repeater frequencies. SLC is free to file another license modification request, but I presume they and their frequency co-ordinator are looking for a different pair of frequencies.

ULS Application - Public Safety Pool, Conventional - 0003648920 - SAINT LAWRENCE, COUNTY OF - Automated Letters

The link above covers 5 letters sent by the FCC to SLC, and the frequency co-ordinator the county used. The viewable documents are in Adobe Acrobat format.

If you look at the SLC callsign in the FCC ULS database, with the search engine set to view "all" (including expired) licenses fitting your search criteria, some of the SLC licenses for their fire channels will also some a log number to the right of the callsign. The above letters from the FCC are under the "Admin" tab.

(In this case, I did a frequency search ... simply entered 154.145, NY for the state, and "all" for the license filter ... then scanned down the entries for St Lawrence County.)

So, I guess I was wrong about your agency getting a repeater anytime soon. Hopefully, though, the agency administrators haven't abandoned the idea. I apologize for not responding to your request for more information sooner, but I've been working alot of hours since Saturday morning.