New radio system possible for Greenville County

[SCPD]

This should still be classified as rumor, but consider it coming from reliable sources....

In recent days dozens of county officials have met to discuss the radio communication system in Greenville along with the distribution of a large sum of money made possible through a federal grant. This grant is said to be a statewide grant, however, Greenville county will be getting a large portion of the money because "...Greenville is the most established, yet has the least ability to communicate with other agencies in the state...."

Apparent discussions spoke heavily of the Palmetto 800 Mhz system, but not in a good way. Of the few agencies in Greenville on the Palmetto system, few felt the system was meeting their needs completely. Some suggested that if the system was expanded it could work, but current portable coverage is not acceptable for the majority of first responders.

For those reasons a new UHF system is being hinted at. The grant could potentially provide mobile radio's in every emergency vehicle (FIRE, EMS, PD) in the county, along with a designated number of portable radios per department and.......2 800Mhz radios for all departments. The goal would be for nearly everyone to be able to communicate with all agencies in the county in the event of an emergency, and for all agencies to develop a relationship with each other. As it stands very few agencies work together, and if the system comes to fruition it is believed the system could build better relationships.

For those of you who know someone on county council, please talk to them about the poor radio systems and lack of interoperability in the county. By doing so, it may eliminate the issues which could stop this grant from happening. When more information is I will try to provide as quickly as possible. Again, keep in mind this is still in the beginning stages and a lot could change.

Cautiously optimistic.....
Alex

 

[rescuecomm]

I heard a Greenville city firefighter state that the Pal800 system does not give similar coverage to the former 453mhz system inside buildings. The problem was made worse when the FF's got tired of having the long WT antenna snag on things and switched to the shorter antennas. I asked why they don't switch to a Tac channel (talkaround). He says that in the heat of battle, guys don't remember to switch off their main talkgroup.

Alex85T, when you say UHF, are you refering to another 800 mhz system or an expanded 450-470 system?

Bob

 

[LarrySC]

I'm sure he ment UHF 450-470. HOWEVER, there are no freqs open and it also would require a large number of tac and fire ground freqs. I understand that some complain about the Pal800 but when you think about it there seems to be no other way to go. With only Paris Mtn, and the W Ga road tower you can see the need for other locations. The state can get grant $ with that "catch 22". I think the Pal 800 is the best thing since man discovered fire. I can sit here in Berea and monitor Laurens Co with a 3" rubber duck. Regardless, it just means we will spend more time writing programs for our toys.

 

[SCPD]

I heard a Greenville city firefighter state that the Pal800 system does not give similar coverage to the former 453mhz system inside buildings. The problem was made worse when the FF's got tired of having the long WT antenna snag on things and switched to the shorter antennas. I asked why they don't switch to a Tac channel (talkaround). He says that in the heat of battle, guys don't remember to switch off their main talkgroup.

Alex85T, when you say UHF, are you refering to another 800 mhz system or an expanded 450-470 system?

Bob

The firefighter speaks correctly regarding poor reception inside buildings in the city, I blame this on the lack of sites and motorola doing nothing about it.... The city had a repeater installed in Grenville Memorial for the FD/PD because of the lack of reception. The long antenna issue is just some whining if you ask me, I have a full length antenna on my XTS radio and don't have an issue with it "snagging on things". More than likely the guys were use to the shorter UHF antenna's on their HT1000's and wanted something similar in length. I would say the firefighters don't switch to simplex channels because of the lack of training.... I believe there was little or no training on how to use the new radio/radio system and everyone treats the radio's much like their previous HT1000's. The fact that MANY metro cities (Atlanta, Charlotte, Charleston...to name a few...) can function well on trunking systems tells me this is a local training issue. I also feel that the time spent responding to a call is when an emergency responder should be getting all his equipment on and ready for the "heat of the battle", that way he is ready to go the minute they arrive on scene.

FYI....Generally UHF is referring to the 380-470 Mhz band and 800Mhz is referred to as 800Mhz.

I should add that by "System" it does not appear to be a trunking system, just a network of UHF repeaters.

 

[SCPD]

I'm sure he ment UHF 450-470. HOWEVER, there are no freqs open and it also would require a large number of tac and fire ground freqs. I understand that some complain about the Pal800 but when you think about it there seems to be no other way to go. With only Paris Mtn, and the W Ga road tower you can see the need for other locations. The state can get grant $ with that "catch 22". I think the Pal 800 is the best thing since man discovered fire. I can sit here in Berea and monitor Laurens Co with a 3" rubber duck. Regardless, it just means we will spend more time writing programs for our toys.

Larry, I have to disagree with you regarding no frequencies on UHF being available. VHF is all out, but I know of a couple agencies which just received UHF freqs with no problems whatsoever. Also keep in mind that Greenville County EMS has a LONG list of under utilized repeaters in service with a few frequencies in reserve that they don't have repeaters setup on yet. Another thing to keep in mind are the old city fire and pd channels as well.... It was mentioned that those 8 or so channels would be available.... Putting all of those frequencies out there - on top of the agencies already on UHF - makes this an even more feasible "plan".

Larry, after a couple of years of me being on this board I hope you know by now that I feel your sentiments about the Pal800 being "the way to go". There are however 2 big issues for these public safety agencies, one being the recurring radio fees, and two reception issues. I too can monitor other counties from the comfort of my home with my portable in hand, however, once officers and firefighters start driving around or walking through buildings they inevitably find the dead (weak) spots in the system and there seems to be far too many dead spots for the people who are already in a dangerous profession.

I would love to see Motorola or Greenville expand the Pal800, much like Anderson is rumoring to be doing. But Greenville just doesn't see the benefit in spending the millions it would cost to expand the system. Until everyone realizes it is necessary and that there is an actual benefit by having such a system, it just won't happen.

 

[evan]

Whatever they decide, something needs to be done. It baffles me that the county has gone this long without having more interoperability. Just looking at the county fire departments is scary-half of them are on the county VHF simplex channel, others on the UHF county repeater, while still others maintain their own radio systems. That's only part of the problem. How about all of the departments that aren't even dispatched by Greenville County? It's just a mess and makes no sense. There's no telling how many responses get delayed due to passing calls off from one place to another. Then when multiple agencies respond, no one can talk to each other by radio, so they go through their dispatcher who has to call a separate dispatch center instead of talking to someone at a neighboring console.

Things could certainly be done to improve Palm800 coverage-setting up a simulcast subsystem like in Lexington or Richland Counties comes to mind.

 

[SCPD]

There's no telling how many responses get delayed due to passing calls off from one place to another.

You hit the nail on the head with that statement, however the general population has no idea of this problem and I blame that on the PS officials. Departments have the realize the public needs to be told of problems and then sold on the solution to get what you need. Simply showing up to county council one night and asking for a million dollars to fix a problem is going raise a lot of eyebrows and questions as to why the problems had never been vocalized before.

How about all of the departments that aren't even dispatched by Greenville County?

Good luck getting everyone dispatched centrally, there are WAY too many egos getting in the way of that happening.

 

[rescuecomm]

Alex85T, I am aware that most public safety operators refer to 800mhz as 800. If you check the spectrum definitions, UHF is 300 to 3,000 mhz. Howver, some hams refer to 220 as UHF, some call it VHF. I was thinking along with Larry, that UHF freqs in the area are well used. I don't know if the MED 1-8 channels are in the general public safety freq pool or not. The city PD and fire channels are not used and could be appropriated. Comms training? Hello!

Bob

 

[LarrySC]

I understand the issues with 800 mHz having shadows and usually requires 3 towers to flood an area with strong RF. There are some UHF freqs that could be used in the Greenville area, but I dont think there are enough. Think back 20 years. Can you remember when every fire dept in Greenville Co dispatched their own calls. I had a stock of 23 VHF crystals just for the Greenville area. Even though things are not what they need to be, it's still a lot better than 20 years ago. AND, maybe it will get better.

 

[khubbard]

There should be a system for everyone. As far as passing on calls, with Pelham-Batesville FD, they border both Spartanburg and greenville. When they have a call in Greenville Pelhams headquarters calls Spartanburg and asks for an alarm to respond to greenville. In the mean time pelhams trucks talk to headquarters which talks to Spartanburg. talk about waste of time

 

[rescuecomm]

Replacing the VHF fire channels in Greenville County with a UHF system could be done. Using existing FD UHF channels and adding the three Greenville FD and the four Greenvile City PD channels, one could have a good LTR system or a very good conventional radio system. Usining two channels for dispatch and having several Tac channels for response/working fires and wrecks could be accommodated. I don't think that the State CIO's office is going to think too much about not going to 800. Seems like improving operations and interoperability means 700/800 mhz systems to a lot of folks.

Bob

 

[LarrySC]

The new FIRE COMM on 154.175 is dispatching Greer, Pelham, and Tyger River. Not sure if there are more. Someone was testing the old REGIONAL UHF channel today [ 460.250 ] But no PL Tone was used.

 

[SCPD]

Seems like improving operations and interoperability means 700/800 mhz systems to a lot of folks.

The only problem.... $$$ Millions of dollars for that matter....

Seeing how Motorola has caught on that they don't have to spend the money to expand the system themselves, just wait for the local communities to build out the system for Motorola and then take over maintenance, I don't see things changing any time soon.

 

[khubbard]

Motorola is the problem. They suck

 

[Bravo10]

Motorola is the problem. They suck

There is a reason why there are thousands of motorola systems in place. And there are reasons you do not see many Vertex systems around. Just food for thought..

Bravo10

 

[khubbard]

i have had motorolas before they are not that reliable. as far as vertex i find they out talk motorola. I also know several radio techs who wont even work on moto they rather throw them in the trash. plus how many articles have you read where there was a public safety officer who could not talk on a moto system.

 

[SCPD]

I have now been told that the grant has been cut down to $500,000 to Greenville County from the previously discussed 2 Million dollars. This will be used for 3 UHF repeaters for better county coverage and 2 800Mhz portable radio's for each department that wishes to pay an estimated 3-5K dollars. The state will pay the user fees for 2 years on the 2 portable radio's, after that it is left to the individual departments. Bottom line, this will do little for the area.....