South Dakota State Radio System Programming

[jlzweifel]

Hello!

So heres the deal. I have a Pro-651 that I have programmed to the state radio system. Now, South Dakota has a pretty awesome system statewide. The issue I'm having is this:

I'm in the far SE part of the state(about 8 miles west of the Iowa border in Union County) The nearest Tower to me is the Beresford Tower and then Vermillion Tower, which i have programmed along with multiple other tower sites(all in all i have 11 towers programmed into the scanner, one of which is the Simulcast out of SF). I'm picking up the local traffic(up to 35 miles away) on the state radio system, as well as agencies 60-75 miles away. The one agency I cannot pickup is any of the Sioux Falls traffic, local or county. Now I'm using an outdoor antenna approx. 20 ft in the air(the antenna is on my outdoor tower but is made to be on the car/truck), but also use the standard antenna that came with the unit. I cant understand how I can get traffic at point A and C, but i cant pickup traffic and point B in the middle. I know the towers are working as when I'm 5-10 miles out of Sioux Falls, the scanner picks up the traffic.

To many towers programmed in? Not enough?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Each tower will only pass traffic if a radio has affiliated a talk group with it.
So for example if you have a state trooper next to you and he flips over to a secondary channel, that tower will now broadcast the secondary channel as his radio has affiliated with the closest tower and will now broadcast that talkgroup.
1 of 2 things may be happening with Sioux Falls.
1 - They may not have anybody affiliating with a tower near you so therefore no traffic will pass on that tower. Assuming i read your post correct. You are not able to pick up the Sioux Falls tower so there fore you may not hear them.
2 - Sioux Falls MIGHT have the system set up where their traffic is not broadcast over the entire network. I see they have 3 sites in Minnehaha county. Its possible but not likely they could have a site or two to handle most of the city traffic and another site for the statewide traffic. System admins have the ability to do that to help with additional traffic from busier city traffic versus lower volume statewide traffic.

To test this out i would recommend driving to Sioux Falls and see if you get traffic on any of the sites in that city. IF you do then your setup is correct. You can also test out the other theory by listening to only 1 site at a time and see what audio passes. 2 of the 3 may pass city traffic while 1 site may pass statewide. They can be set up any number of ways.

Statewide systems usually are set up in zones. So radio traffic from certain areas will not pass audio all over. Again its all in how its set up from the radio shop.

 

[jlzweifel]

So how is it that I am able to pickup the tower in Madison(north and west of Sioux Falls) but i am unable to pickup the Sioux falls towers(the 3 in Minnehaha county). Should I program just one of those county towers into the scanner? I read on another thread of sometimes to much signal coming in. When I pause on lets say SFFD channel 1, my signal is 100% according to the scanner. but there is zero audio, thats how it is with every channel out of Sioux falls. I have brought the unit(with all three Minnehaha county towers programmed into it) to SF and receive just fine, i also receive local traffic from back home when in Sioux falls using the standard antenna that came with the unit.

I would think in my own little head that the antenna i have outside would pickup any of the three towers in Minnehaha County, BUT I'm beginning to realize differently.

 

[IAmSixNine]

OK you have a lot going on there. Lets break it down.
Your listening to a VHF system. So VHF travels better distances than UHF or 800mhz. Its possible for you to pick up a tower farther away if that tower is higher up, or higher power. Usually with state wide systems they tend to be both, high power and high up for larger coverage. With a city system you tend to get more towers with slightly lower power so you can get better in building coverage and good saturation of the city area.
Also keep in mind if you have multiple sites programmed in and you happen to hold on SFFD channel 1 and get 100% signal that doesnt necessarily mean your parked on the tower in Minnehaha county. You may be parked on a tower closest to you.
What you need to do is program in a favorites list or how ever your scanner is set up with just the 3 towers in Minnehaha county and the talk groups for Sioux Falls.

So you have taken the scanner to SF and it does pick up all the traffic in SF. But at home your not picking up any traffic. Correct?

 

[jlzweifel]

Correct, I have brought the scanner to SF and it picks up the talk groups just fine, just not from home.

I will program only the three Minnehaha County towers into the scanner to see if that works from home.

 

[IAmSixNine]

If it were my scanner i would set it up as 2 different systems.
1 would be for statewide and 1 would be for Minnehaha county/Sioux Falls stuff.

 

[SCPD]

Correct, I have brought the scanner to SF and it picks up the talk groups just fine, just not from home.

I will program only the three Minnehaha County towers into the scanner to see if that works from home.

knowing that area well, it will not work. You are way to far south to pickup the Sioux Falls simucast towers. Just wont happen unfortunately. Remember that union county still uses alot of there analog channels, so dont forget to program those in also. Lincoln county also uses all analog. Clay county fire is all analog as well.

 

[SCPD]

Correct, I have brought the scanner to SF and it picks up the talk groups just fine, just not from home.

I will program only the three Minnehaha County towers into the scanner to see if that works from home.

Also I would recommend reading through this a couple times http://sdpscc.sd.gov/documents/TraintheTrainer3_003.pdf

Its what the state puts out to train radio users

 

[jlzweifel]

Alright so heres the results

I programmed ONLY the three Minnehaha County towers into the scanner with the City/County Talkgroups.

I also programmed SF INTERAGENCY and SRC SF into the scanner.

Results are as follows:

No traffic within the city/county at all.

BUT, I do pickup the traffic from the SF INTERAGENCY and SRC SF talkgroups...

I am more than beyond confused of how this is possible. Again, the only towers are the three in Minnehaha county that are programmed into the scanner.

 

[IAmSixNine]

What happens when you program in site 44(2c) only and try to listen to the city talk groups?

 

[jlzweifel]

So you want me to only put in the Simulcast tower correct?

 

[IAmSixNine]

correct.
Im trying to help narrow down why your not getting the city traffic.
Its also possible changes may have been made on their end and nobody has updated the site.

 

[jlzweifel]

Alright I will do that and update with the results...

 

[byndhlptom]

SF PD/FD

is this possible?

The Sioux Falls Simulcast sites are 1) probably set up as "quasi separate system", are tx'g with relatively low power (compared to the state towers), and are "focused" on the city proper (never intended to be used 30+ miles from SF), thus you don't receive this "site". They handle 100% of the City traffic, and very little if any State traffic.

I would suspect that the White Lake and Baltic sites are primarily for non Sioux Falls city traffic, thus they handle the county/state/interagency stuff for Minnehaha Co and are probably using a little more TX power than the SF site(s)

Per the Training guide listed above, Beresford, Turkey Ridge, & White Lake (page 27,28) are p/o the group that repeats interagency signals for the Sioux Falls area. Thus you are probably receiving the interagency traffic off the White lake site.

When you get closer to SF, then you can start to RX the Simulcast system.....

$.02

 

[jlzweifel]

Update:

Programming ONLY the simulcast tower with Minnehaha County and City talk groups results:

Still receiving the SRC and SF INT talk group traffic, and also intermittent traffic from Minnehaha County SO talk group.

I think i may have narrowed down the issue(maybe)- seems to me that i am right on the southern edge of the coverage area for those towers in SF and Minnehaha County. Literally right on the edge. I'm betting that's my issue as bwca44 stated.

Looks like I'm out of options from where I'm at, unless a different outside/higher up antenna would work.

I do appreciate all of your help!

 

[byndhlptom]

SF Traffic

a few comments....

1- You do realize that the Simulcast "site" is actually more than one transmitter......

2- several options to increase signal level:
A- better (lower loss) coax
B- Higher gain antenna
C- more height
D- Directional antenna pointed towards SF
E- pre amp at antenna

3- One or a combination will probably help, although you may loose coverage elsewhere (esp with directional antenna)

Good Luck

$.02

 

[SCPD]

Update:

Programming ONLY the simulcast tower with Minnehaha County and City talk groups results:

Still receiving the SRC and SF INT talk group traffic, and also intermittent traffic from Minnehaha County SO talk group.

I think i may have narrowed down the issue(maybe)- seems to me that i am right on the southern edge of the coverage area for those towers in SF and Minnehaha County. Literally right on the edge. I'm betting that's my issue as bwca44 stated.

Looks like I'm out of options from where I'm at, unless a different outside/higher up antenna would work.

I do appreciate all of your help!

Where do you live at exactly again? I still think that your not actually receiving the SF towers...you may have a local site that you are hearing and SF INT, SF SRC and Minn SO have units affiliating on that site that you are hearing. If you are in union county I really dont think you will receive sioux falls...Ive tried it. To far south

 

[jlzweifel]

Alcester is where I'm at. I have reset the scanner and only put in the Simulcast tower with the county/city talk groups, and thats when i get the intermittent radio traffic from MINNEHAHA CO SO

 

[IAmSixNine]

Sounds like you may need some LMR400 feed line and a good VHF yagi antenna say about 30 feet in the air and you might be able to pick up the system. But thats just my guess.

 

[SCPD]

Alcester is where I'm at. I have reset the scanner and only put in the Simulcast tower with the county/city talk groups, and thats when i get the intermittent radio traffic from MINNEHAHA CO SO

I really think that you are picking up the Beresford site. That would make sense why you are only hearing intermittent Sioux falls traffic. you will pick up Minn SO on the Beresford site because they run transports to HSC in Yankton almost daily.