Being re-quested/told to take down online feed.

Napsterbater · #1 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 06:46 AM

I was wondering what everyone thoughts where on a response to being requested/told to take you online feed down, now the problem is I'm on the dept that the feed is covering and it came down the chain of command that I need to take it down due to "It not your (my) frequency to be broadcasting" now of course I'm not doing anything really that a $100+- scanner form radio shack cant do it just trough a different means, on the other hand I'm a probie on the Dept. so not really trying to make waves. I think im gonna talk to the chief and see what his concerns on the issue but I would like to here your thoughts on this aswell.

Thanks.

pachanga22 · #2 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 06:57 AM

Actually, it IS your frequency, Mr. Taxpayer, and if they want it secure then they need to encrypt it. Can't think of any laws you've broken...

rdale · #3 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 07:42 AM

If the chief says take it down, and you are in a probationary period -- it's a question you really shouldn't have to ask us.

Dak48 · #4 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 08:08 AM

Much as it may suck, RDale is right. If you are a probie and Chief said it must go, then it must go, or you may go.

Just out of curiousity, how was it discovered?

pachanga22 · #5 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 08:12 AM

I'd like to know what the objection is.

I suspect a bored rural county chief with not much else going on. Surely there are more important things to think about...

S.O. or F.D.?

Napsterbater · #6 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 08:14 AM

Not sure exactly, and just for clarification I'm a Vol. FF so it not like I'm at risk of losing my paying job or something just so where clear, but of course doesn't mean I want to leave the Dept. either. I have a felling a quick chat with the chief will clear up the concerns, TBH I bet someone told him about it and him not knowing much about it (or maybe never even checking it out) just wanted it down based on what someone told him. That my feeling anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachanga22

I'd like to know what the objection is.

I suspect a bored rural county chief with not much else going on. Surely there are more important things to think about...

S.O. or F.D.?

TBH the chief is a reasonable guy like I said above I think someone told him about it and offered their opinion that it shouldn't be there and that when I talk to him I can clear it up with him. And its FD.

pachanga22 · #7 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 08:18 AM

Now how can that be a justified dismissal, folks? The guy is doing something perfectly legal on his own time. So if the "chief" says you can't drive your car "because he says so", or you may "go", isn't that about the same thing?

Dak48 · #8 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 09:21 AM

I don't know about other locales, but all kinds of restrictions apply to probation firefighters on some of the VFDs around me, one such restriction is no lights on their POV until they complete probation. Personally, I think that is kind of dumb, because how are they to get to the fire house running code 1 in an expedient manner.

I agree that maybe a conversation with the Chief may help clear up any misunderstanding about the stream. I've often thought about putting a feed up myself, but being a Harley rider, I figured that I might make myself a target from the local LEA/LEOs and since I already ride a Harley I've a huge bullseye on my back to begin with, I sure don't want to make it a bigger one.

I'm curious as to why they want the feed pulled as well, because there is nothing law-wise that says that this can't be done, but there may be some VFD by-law or something. I just do not know. Keep us posted though, I'm curious to know how this turns out.

Napsterbater · #9 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dak48

I don't know about other locales, but all kinds of restrictions apply to probation firefighters on some of the VFDs around me, one such restriction is no lights on their POV until they complete probation. Personally, I think that is kind of dumb, because how are they to get to the fire house running code 1 in an expedient manner.

I agree that maybe a conversation with the Chief may help clear up any misunderstanding about the stream. I've often thought about putting a feed up myself, but being a Harley rider, I figured that I might make myself a target from the local LEA/LEOs and since I already ride a Harley I've a huge bullseye on my back to begin with, I sure don't want to make it a bigger one.

I'm curious as to why they want the feed pulled as well, because there is nothing law-wise that says that this can't be done, but there may be some VFD by-law or something. I just do not know. Keep us posted though, I'm curious to know how this turns out.

No Light on a POV for a probi I understand to many with them that don't need them, at least till they prove they are responsible.

Back on topic, and FYI we are a Paid/Vol Dept. with the chief and some stations being career, my station it self is 100% Vol. I'm sure we don't a policy on this specifically but who knows.

KB1KBD · #10 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 09:48 AM

Having been a member of a FD myself, the best advice I can give you is go through the chain of command. If you go directly to the Chief with this it will come back to haunt you. Start with the person who told you to take it down and go from there.

The best course may be to take it down first, then ask what steps you need to take to get the approval, not that you need it mind you, to get it back on the air. This will show them you will follow orders and work through the chain of command to solve a problem.

Good luck!

Thayne · #11 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 12:13 PM

I think if you want to keep your job and need to keep it take it down and smile while doing it. It is easy to win the battle and lose the war. Trust me, its' no fun to eat wheaties you have pissed in.--

FFPM571 · #12 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 01:12 PM

The question is it worth it to cause waves. I dont think so. Whats to stop "Mr private citizen " to do the same. Let them do it. Take it down. It will make life at the station easier.

hoser147 · #13 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KB1KBD

Having been a member of a FD myself, the best advice I can give you is go through the chain of command. If you go directly to the Chief with this it will come back to haunt you. Start with the person who told you to take it down and go from there.

The best course may be to take it down first, then ask what steps you need to take to get the approval, not that you need it mind you, to get it back on the air. This will show them you will follow orders and work through the chain of command to solve a problem.

Good luck!

I agree this is probably your best course to follow. Good Luck

SkipSanders · #14 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 03:19 PM

To give one large fire department's take on this, see: LAFD - Live Audio from the Los Angeles Fire Department

Essentially, the Los Angeles Fire Department claims that rebroadcast of their system is a violation of section 605 of the communications act (revealing communications to others). There could also be a copyright argument.

Either way, unless you're willing (in your case) to lose your job (refusal to obey orders) and to pay HUGE legal fees to fight in court (while your taxes pay the other side), with no guarantee that you'd win, I'd say the best course is to take it off the 'air' if 'requested' by the agency being retransmitted.

gmclam · #15 (**permalink**) 01-25-2009, 03:40 PM

There is right and wrong, then there is legal and illegal, and then there is reality. I'd say that if someone of authority asked you to take down a feed that you should do so. Consider the options the person has who has made this request if you choose to ignore it. The option I do not like is that the agency starts encrypting their transmissions, then NONE of us will be able to (legally) receive it.

bfr · #16 (**permalink**) 01-30-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkipSanders

Essentially, the Los Angeles Fire Department claims that rebroadcast of their system is a violation of section 605 of the communications act (revealing communications to others).

I'm no attorney, but I read that code and I think the LAFD is wrong. It clearly states that it only applies to interstate or foreign communications. I fail to see how a local city department's transmissions could be regarded as insterstate communications. Anyway...

I agree with those who recommend that you play nice.

pacrat551 · #17 (**permalink**) 02-01-2009, 01:39 PM

If this whole thing is causing too much conflict, maybe you could find a good friend not associated with the FD and ask them to host it for you. I've had my stream running for several years but I've never had anyone question it.

Just some food for thought

N_Jay · #18 (**permalink**) 02-01-2009, 01:54 PM

Maybe I'm wrong (and I am sure there are many here who will say so), BUT;
While it is not illegal to stream the audio, it is on the hairy edge of "Divulging" since those that hear it may not know that intercepted radio communications are not to be divulged.
(Personally, I think the FCC has chosen the path they have to stay out of the whole "managing the Internet" problem.)
Since a person with responsibility for the communications has requested it to be discontinued I would do so.

Second, depending in your state, a VFD may be a private organization, and as such as the freedom to establish its own rules for its members and for membership.
I would assume that following the instructions of a ranking member would be somewhere in those rules, especially for a probie.

SO, in my (layman's) view they not only have the right to ask you to take it down, but also the right to tell you to take it down, and the right to exclude you from membership if you don't take it down.

On top of that, I would resist the suggestion to "go around" the request by having a friend put it up in for you. This would only be seen as a sure fire way to give the captain a good reason to find many other reasons to toss you out.

w4esp · #19 (**permalink**) 02-01-2009, 02:15 PM

here is an idea, take your link down and have someone else do it, that way you are insulated from having anything to do with it.

tom w4esp

khoelldobler · #20 (**permalink**) 02-01-2009, 06:13 PM

OK, I will throw in my 2 cents worth. Your a probie... you are now beginning to learn from more experienced members of your company/department. You DO want to make a good impression... your priority is to complete your probation period, your line officers, all the way up to assistant chief, and even the "big cheese" chief are currently instructing you to gain knoweledge as a firefighter. One chief has learned of your extra curicular radio activities "broadcasting live audio" to the public, via internet. #1 the chief may not understand what the stream really is, and may not know that its alright for you to be streaming... #2 the chief really doesn't need a reason to make the decision, as a probie you must terminate your stream of audio out of respect for his position on the subject and his ranking authority. #3 his position on the subject could be that he doesn't have a problem with the stream at all, but maybe he is thinking that a probie shouldn't be playing dispatcher, or broadcaster with radio frequencies that he has been transmitting on for the past who knows how many years... #4 stop the stream, become good friends with him over the next several months, get off of probation, then ask him again if it would be alright to do so. You can show him just how interested you are in radio's and communications, and he might think its one of your talents. He may just come around in about a year. Anyway, I had to tell ya this because I was a firefighter in NY for almost 17 years, and if I didn't get off probation, I would never have all of the fond memories as being a 17 year firefighter. Give it up now, and I'm sure you can give the audio stream another shot down the road... just get off probation, concentrate on study and training, work your way up to line officer, and enjoy the ride bro.