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  #3561 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2017, 2:13 PM
   
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 1
Post TTD won't detect tones

Hi, I'm new to TTD. Working with a department that has v60 running on an ancient XP PC.

new PC is Win 7 64-bit, I downloaded v69 and the mpeg software as instructed.
I'm using the v69 config file with same parameters as the v60 config (plus a lot more entries)
I copied the tone config files from the old PC

Two issues
1. the squelch level sets itself when the software starts, and it sets too low - any way to change that?

2. When a tone comes in I see the level and frequency update - so it's getting input, but the software doesn't say "2 tone page detected" like the old one. (and running debug mode I see frequency changing as expected)

Should I try re-creating the tone config files?

Thx

Greg C
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  #3562 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2017, 2:55 PM
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1. the squelch level sets itself when the software starts, and it sets too low - any way to change that?

Adjust it using the slider directly under the audio level bar. After setting it where you want it exit using the exit button and reload TTD. If you exit by simply closing the window the change is lost.

2. When a tone comes in I see the level and frequency update - so it's getting input, but the software doesn't say "2 tone page detected" like the old one. (and running debug mode I see frequency changing as expected)

Try turning your scanner volume up a bit. When a tone is being broadcast, do the frequency numbers that are scrolling by match those that you have in the tone set parameters? If not, you may need to adjust them or open up the tolerance a bit.
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  #3563 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2017, 9:07 PM
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Default Comma

I searched the thread for "comma" and didn't find what I am looking for.

Can there be a space between the comma and quotation mark?

@blah.com,"Name" to @blah.com, "Name"
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  #3564 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:01 PM
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Exclamation County update -- tones "changed"

Good Evening gang,

Polk County (WI.) finally updated their ancient radio equipment. Supposedly, nothing was going to change... What do you know - they did (a bit). An agency now reports that half of their pagers don't trip anymore, and the audio now is noticeably worse.

Now onto some TTD issues:

There are three agencies (as of now) that don't trip when paged out, for the TTD.

Here is one of their tones, and what TTD is now reading them as:

Pager Tones: A: 1034.7, B: 304.7
TTD: A: 1032.0, B: 914.0 -- NOT working

Pager Tones: A:1092.4, B: 1063.2
TTD: A: 1091.0, B: 1059.0 -- working

Here are the tones for the agency who's pagers are not tripping:

A: 979.9, B: 296.5
A: 979.9, B: 288.5

Here is my Config file (I have taken out the E-mail information)

[Section1]
email_user = ;user id to log in to email account used for sending emails
email_pwd = == ;password to log into email account used for sending emails encoded in base64
email_server = smtp.gmail.com ;SMTP server address of email provider
email_port = 465 ;port to access email server with
record_seconds = 36.0 ;number of seconds of audio to record after a valid tone set is found
tone_tolerance = 0.02 ;tolerance of tone detection algorithm 1% = .01
input_device_index = 1 ;index of audio input device
output_device_index = 2 ;index of audio output device
audio_threshold = 64 ;threshold of audio squelch. audio signals below this level will be ignored
tone_offset = 0.0 ;tone offset in percentage. .01 = +1% tone offset, -.02 = -2% tone offset, etc.
mp3_bitrate = 32000 ;bit rate of mp3 encoder. Lower bitrate = smaller file size and lower audio quality
BCC = 0 ;1 = email addresses will be BCC'ed (hidden from other recipients). 0 = recipients will see other recipients
email_priority = 1 ;priority of email (1=highest, 3=normal, 5=lowest)
release_time=0.0 ;amount of silence (in seconds) required before recording will stop (max=60 seconds)
email_from =
email_security = SSL
email_authentication = 1
update_interval = 60.0
audio_channel = mono
stacked_extend_record = 1
start_minimized = 0
email_send_sequential = none


Does anyone know what exactly should be changed, and or what things I should try? There is only one agency that have their pagers not working. I am just adding that in here for reference.

Thank you.
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  #3565 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2017, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryolsen8 View Post
Good Evening gang,

Polk County (WI.) finally updated their ancient radio equipment. Supposedly, nothing was going to change... What do you know - they did (a bit). An agency now reports that half of their pagers don't trip anymore, and the audio now is noticeably worse.

Now onto some TTD issues:

There are three agencies (as of now) that don't trip when paged out, for the TTD.

Here is one of their tones, and what TTD is now reading them as:

Pager Tones: A: 1034.7, B: 304.7
TTD: A: 1032.0, B: 914.0 -- NOT working

Pager Tones: A:1092.4, B: 1063.2
TTD: A: 1091.0, B: 1059.0 -- working

Here are the tones for the agency who's pagers are not tripping:

A: 979.9, B: 296.5
A: 979.9, B: 288.5
Check for this in your tones.cfg file and adjust as needed.
Atonelength = .6
Btonelength = .6
gaplength = 0

For GMail it is recommended to use STARTTLS and port 587.
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  #3566 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2017, 3:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryolsen8 View Post
Good Evening gang,

Polk County (WI.) finally updated their ancient radio equipment. Supposedly, nothing was going to change... What do you know - they did (a bit). An agency now reports that half of their pagers don't trip anymore, and the audio now is noticeably worse.

Now onto some TTD issues:

There are three agencies (as of now) that don't trip when paged out, for the TTD.

Here is one of their tones, and what TTD is now reading them as:

Pager Tones: A: 1034.7, B: 304.7
TTD: A: 1032.0, B: 914.0 -- NOT working

Pager Tones: A:1092.4, B: 1063.2
TTD: A: 1091.0, B: 1059.0 -- working

Here are the tones for the agency who's pagers are not tripping:

A: 979.9, B: 296.5
A: 979.9, B: 288.5

Here is my Config file (I have taken out the E-mail information)

[Section1]
email_user = ;user id to log in to email account used for sending emails
email_pwd = == ;password to log into email account used for sending emails encoded in base64
email_server = smtp.gmail.com ;SMTP server address of email provider
email_port = 465 ;port to access email server with
record_seconds = 36.0 ;number of seconds of audio to record after a valid tone set is found
tone_tolerance = 0.02 ;tolerance of tone detection algorithm 1% = .01
input_device_index = 1 ;index of audio input device
output_device_index = 2 ;index of audio output device
audio_threshold = 64 ;threshold of audio squelch. audio signals below this level will be ignored
tone_offset = 0.0 ;tone offset in percentage. .01 = +1% tone offset, -.02 = -2% tone offset, etc.
mp3_bitrate = 32000 ;bit rate of mp3 encoder. Lower bitrate = smaller file size and lower audio quality
BCC = 0 ;1 = email addresses will be BCC'ed (hidden from other recipients). 0 = recipients will see other recipients
email_priority = 1 ;priority of email (1=highest, 3=normal, 5=lowest)
release_time=0.0 ;amount of silence (in seconds) required before recording will stop (max=60 seconds)
email_from =
email_security = SSL
email_authentication = 1
update_interval = 60.0
audio_channel = mono
stacked_extend_record = 1
start_minimized = 0
email_send_sequential = none


Does anyone know what exactly should be changed, and or what things I should try? There is only one agency that have their pagers not working. I am just adding that in here for reference.

Thank you.
At the risk of sounding like I know what I am talking about, when I really don't...

I experience the same issues. You are seeing harmonics in the system. In your first example above, note how the freq that TTD is hearing is three times the spec freq. That is the third harmonic. If you analyze the recording using Audacity you will see freq peaks at each of the harmonics. This is normal but when the third harmonic is stronger than the correct freq, TTD doesnt decode and pagers may not open. My experience is that it happens most commonly with the low freq tones. I haven't found a good solution. You can try adjusting your input volume. You can add a second tone set for the troublsome depts using the off-spec tone. I have added second tone sets.
If people's pagers are not opening, that is a real concern. That shows that the problem lies in the radio system and not with TTD.

More later, I have to go now...
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  #3567 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2017, 2:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC31 View Post
At the risk of sounding like I know what I am talking about, when I really don't...

I experience the same issues. You are seeing harmonics in the system. In your first example above, note how the freq that TTD is hearing is three times the spec freq. That is the third harmonic. If you analyze the recording using Audacity you will see freq peaks at each of the harmonics. This is normal but when the third harmonic is stronger than the correct freq, TTD doesnt decode and pagers may not open. My experience is that it happens most commonly with the low freq tones. I haven't found a good solution. You can try adjusting your input volume. You can add a second tone set for the troublsome depts using the off-spec tone. I have added second tone sets.
If people's pagers are not opening, that is a real concern. That shows that the problem lies in the radio system and not with TTD.

More later, I have to go now...
Part 2 ...
Your experience closely mirrors mine. My problem tone sets each have either an A or B tone frequency between 290 - 310 hz. All three of your problem tone sets above have a tone pretty much in that range (288-304). An electrical engineer acquaintance of mine suggests that the suspect again may be harmonics. In this case it may be the fifth harmonic of the 60 hz AC power supplying the transmitter. Five times sixty is guess what: 300 hz. May be an explanation of why the tones in the area of 300 hz are distorted, sometimes not opening pagers and causing missed decodes on TTD.

I have other tone sets in the 320-340 hz range that have never been a problem.
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  #3568 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC31 View Post
If people's pagers are not opening, that is a real concern. That shows that the problem lies in the radio system and not with TTD.
DC31 is entirely correct. TTD detects the strongest frequency in the signal. Pagers typically function a little differently and will trigger as long as the desired frequency is present, even if it's not the strongest frequency. If the pagers aren't opening up due to a harmonic issue, it has to be pretty bad, and needs to be fixed on the console/transmitter side, ASAP. TTD not working is one thing, but pagers not working is a much bigger problem.

As DC31 mentioned, a workaround for TTD is to set the B tone in TTD to the third harmonic rather than the "actual" B tone. However, sometimes just which dispatch console is being used can make a difference...one console may be "clean" and another "dirty" with harmonics. Likewise, if you have multiple transmitter sites or towers or backup paging sites, they may have different characteristics as well. So to be safe, you'll want to set up two tone sets...one using the actual B tone and a duplicate using the third harmonic B tone. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

Andy
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  #3569 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2017, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaknitt View Post
DC31 is entirely correct. TTD detects the strongest frequency in the signal. Pagers typically function a little differently and will trigger as long as the desired frequency is present, even if it's not the strongest frequency. If the pagers aren't opening up due to a harmonic issue, it has to be pretty bad, and needs to be fixed on the console/transmitter side, ASAP. TTD not working is one thing, but pagers not working is a much bigger problem.

As DC31 mentioned, a workaround for TTD is to set the B tone in TTD to the third harmonic rather than the "actual" B tone. However, sometimes just which dispatch console is being used can make a difference...one console may be "clean" and another "dirty" with harmonics. Likewise, if you have multiple transmitter sites or towers or backup paging sites, they may have different characteristics as well. So to be safe, you'll want to set up two tone sets...one using the actual B tone and a duplicate using the third harmonic B tone. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

Andy
This has been so very helpful. So- for the first tone set- keep the A tone the same, and change the B tone (duplicating the original) from 304.7 to 180.0 - the 3rd harmonic. Would I continue this practice for the other low tones as well? Just continue using the 3rd harmonic? Assuming it’s however many times higher than original?
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  #3570 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2017, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryolsen8 View Post
This has been so very helpful. So- for the first tone set- keep the A tone the same, and change the B tone (duplicating the original) from 304.7 to 180.0 - the 3rd harmonic. Would I continue this practice for the other low tones as well? Just continue using the 3rd harmonic? Assuming it’s however many times higher than original?
For the three agencies you listed that aren't working, here are the six tone sets you'll want to set up:

Agency 1
A: 1034.7, B: 304.7 – Actual
A: 1037.7, B: 914.1 – Third Harmonic Version (304.7 x 3 = 914.1)

Agency 2
A: 979.9, B: 296.5 – Actual
A: 979.9, B: 889.5 – Third Harmonic Version (296.5 x 3 = 889.5)

Agency 3
A: 979.9, B: 288.5 – Actual
A: 979.9, B: 865.5 – Third Harmonic Version (288.5 x 3 = 865.5)
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  #3571 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2017, 5:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaknitt View Post
For the three agencies you listed that aren't working, here are the six tone sets you'll want to set up:

Agency 1
A: 1034.7, B: 304.7 – Actual
A: 1037.7, B: 914.1 – Third Harmonic Version (304.7 x 3 = 914.1)

Agency 2
A: 979.9, B: 296.5 – Actual
A: 979.9, B: 889.5 – Third Harmonic Version (296.5 x 3 = 889.5)

Agency 3
A: 979.9, B: 288.5 – Actual
A: 979.9, B: 865.5 – Third Harmonic Version (288.5 x 3 = 865.5)
Perfect! I just entered the information in, and we'll see at Pager Testing this evening how it works out.
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  #3572 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 3:49 PM
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Quote:
I searched the thread for "comma" and didn't find what I am looking for.

Can there be a space between the comma and quotation mark?

@blah.com,"Name" to @blah.com, "Name"

Anyone??

#2 - TTD is still sending e-mails during the "exclude from up to exclude to" timeframes. The computer has the corresponding time in 12 Hour format. Yesterday's pages were at 17:32 and it sent e-mails to the people in "exclude_emails". Again, the computer time was "5:32 PM" when the pages came in.

Reference the attached rr.png.
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  #3573 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 5:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhsands View Post
Anyone??

#2 - TTD is still sending e-mails during the "exclude from up to exclude to" timeframes. The computer has the corresponding time in 12 Hour format. Yesterday's pages were at 17:32 and it sent e-mails to the people in "exclude_emails". Again, the computer time was "5:32 PM" when the pages came in.

Reference the attached rr.png.
The space between the comma and quote is optional. It works either way.

Did you restart TTD after entering the exclude info? It looks like you got it right.
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