Rebanding???

[REDave]

Has anyone started rebanding? Any Issues?

[RUSTY_SHACKAFORD]

Good Question

[n4voxgill]

There have been so many appeals filed that the FCC has said they will be very selective on the cases they review.

[fmon]

Originally Posted by REDave

Has anyone started rebanding? Any Issues?

This Colorado DTRS forum was created 11 weeks ago.

[philipdimartino]

Hello I live in the Buffalo/Niagara Region in New York does anyone know if rebanding is complete here and what or will what when it has/had been done.

[wayne_h]

Originally Posted by philipdimartino

Hello I live in the Buffalo/Niagara Region in New York does anyone know if rebanding is complete here and what or will what when it has/had been done.

Please stick to the topic. Your question should be asked in your regional forum.

This forum is for professional issues related to system administration.

[cg]

Many groups have started and completed rebanding. Those are the ones who had to move from the 851-854 MHz frequency spread. Users merely reprogrammed the radios to other existing channels given them by the FCC.
What has not started it the relocation of the NPSAC 866-869 users into the now (almost) open 851-854 spectrum. This is the move that will cause more problems with scanner users. It will also require all previously unaffected public safety users to reprogram the ITAC/ICALL freqs to the new ones.
I went to a Motorola users group meeting several months ago and the Motorola reps were talking about hoping to have started by now (Nov) on several systems.
After some of the recent FCC orders that came out for the process to hurry up, I would bet on Nextel heading for the courts for extensions (personal opinion/guess)

chris

[littona]

I've been involved in the planning phase of many rebanding projects. There have only been a handful of systems that have actually been rebanded. Most of them had "lower 120" frequencies. The actual rebanding work is beginning to start in many areas, while some folks haven't even completed their planning yet! For up-to-date rebanding news, I suggest checking out http://mrtmag.com

[Landman]

In the Colorado thread linked to above it seems that there is a trend of moving the frequencies in the high 860's down 15 Mhz. What about the lower 120? Is there a pattern that anyone has noticed for moving the lower frequencies up?

[cg]

the lower 120 freqs that got moved got put into holes, sometimes created by moving existing Nextel freqs into 900 MHz licenses. There is no pattern to it. The frequencies would be updated in the FCC database

chris

[AlanTilles]

With the exception of the Wave 4 Border areas, virtually all 1-120 licensees have been rebanded into 854-860 MHz. Numerous NPSPAC licensees have begun their rebands, with the State of Colorado having flashed over 10,000 radios (and now working on infrastructure). A few (but not many) NPSPAC licensees have completed their rebands as of this time.

Alan S. Tilles, Esquire
Shulman Rogers Gandal Pordy & Ecker, P.A.
www.shulmanrogers.com
www.rebanding.com

[fwradio]

It was reported that last week Breakthrough Communications completed the rebanding of NPSPAC channels for Parker County, Tx.

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=61

[DaveNF2G]

Originally Posted by AlanTilles

With the exception of the Wave 4 Border areas, virtually all 1-120 licensees have been rebanded into 854-860 MHz.

Source? This is not true, unless rebanding has been finished everywhere but New York and the New England area. It hasn't even started above the mid-Hudson Valley, and much of the eastern part of the state is not in Wave 4.

I have seen no evidence of rebanding in western Massachusetts, either.

[ka3jjz]

and not to mention Maryland, where rebanding hasn't hit any large systems yet, although I understand the planning is almost finished in some cases. Ocean City Md. is the only area that has rebanded AFAIK 73s Mike

[MASTR-V]

Originally Posted by DaveNF2G

Source? This is not true, unless rebanding has been finished everywhere but New York and the New England area. It hasn't even started above the mid-Hudson Valley, and much of the eastern part of the state is not in Wave 4.

I have seen no evidence of rebanding in western Massachusetts, either.

OMG...Dave and ka3jjz, Alan's source is, well, himself and what he has said is true. Alan (or his firm, anyway) is/are representing a LARGE number of public safety entities through the rebanding process for legal services and will have a pretty good idea about what lower 120 licensees have rebanded.

And who doesn't read the page opposite the back cover in MRT every month?!

That aside, his statement that most of the rebanding of the lower 120 channels (the licensees that had to vacate spectrum to make way for the NPSPAC licensees to move down) has taken place is, in fact, true. There are not too many of these licensees out there, so this was not a huge undertaking like the NPSPAC portion is, which is what you are probably talking about when you say "rebanding." Remember, rebanding is a two step process: vacate the licensees of the lower 120 channels, then move 867-869 NPSPAC licensees down to 851-854. NPSPAC can't move until the lower 120 are vacated.

[DaveNF2G]

We still have several commercial SMRs occupying the lower 120 within radio range of Albany, NY, and none of them are in Wave 4 areas.

Rebanding, from the viewpoint of radio users, doesn't happen when the contracts are signed. It happens when frequencies change. That has not happened at all in many areas of the country, thus my challenge to the statement as written.

[AlanTilles]

Originally Posted by DaveNF2G

Source? This is not true, unless rebanding has been finished everywhere but New York and the New England area. It hasn't even started above the mid-Hudson Valley, and much of the eastern part of the state is not in Wave 4.

I have seen no evidence of rebanding in western Massachusetts, either.

That source would be me. I represent over 150 municipalities across the country, negotiating their rebanding agreements. Further, I was part of the so-called "Consensus Parties" that developed the concept of rebanding to eliminate interference. So, I'm more than a little bit involved in this process.

Perhaps the systems which you refer to are not 1-120 (851/854 MHz) systems, but rather NPSPAC systems. Or, it could be an interleaved system that has elected to move their Expansion Band (860 MHz) frequencies as part of their NPSPAC reband. Or, it could be a mixed 1-120/NPSPAC system and, like I did in Central Florida, they got a waiver to move their 1-120 frequencies at the same time as they move their NPSPAC channels.

However, to be specific in the regions that you mention, I am aware that the City of Boston is one of the exceptions that I mentioned, and has not completed their 1-120 reband, because they are tied up in litigation with Nextel over recovery of certain costs. My understanding is that Boston and Nextel reached a compromise on their issues in dispute just recently, and hopefully that particular reband can start soon, because it stands in the way of NPSPAC licensees moving down.

As far as the mid-Hudson Valley area goes, if memory serves (I'm home right now), Orange County has completed their 1-120 reband (their system is tied together with a system operated by my client, New York Communications Company, who has completed their 1-120 reband), but I'd have to check.

Further, you should be aware that sometimes systems that are on the "border" of Waves, so to speak, can't be moved because their frequencies are impacted by border frequencies. So, for example, I represent the L.A. Unified School District who, despite the fact that they are not in a border area, can't get a frequency assignment until we know what the Mexican border plan is.

Again, there are a handful of 1-120 systems that have not completed their rebands, but the others have. So, for example, I'm also aware that the following non-Wave 4 licensees (which include some that cross-border areas) have not completed their 1-120 rebands: (1) State of Florida; (2) Manatee County, Florida; (3) Miramar, Florida; (4) Cary, NC; (5) DC Region; (6) Central Florida (Brevard, Seminole and Martin Counties); (7) State of California (Wave 4 issues, among other things). But, we've completed dozens of other rebands. Probably about 20% of the 1-120 licensees that we represented were public safety, the rest SMR and internal users.

Easy way to check as to whether a reband has been done is to go on to the FCC's web site, and check the licensee's license. If they are an original 1-120 licensee, and their current authorization only shows the old channels, they are still only operating on the old channels. If the license shows both old and new channels, they are in the middle of the work. If the license shows only the new channels, they're done.

If I can give you any additional information, I'd be happy to provide it.

Alan S. Tilles, Esquire
Shulman Rogers Gandal Pordy & Ecker, P.A.
www.shulmanrogers.com
www.800mhzrebanding.com

[DaveNF2G]

Alan -

No hostility intended, just a rather strongly phrased request for clarification. Sorry for any friction.

You are right about Orange County and NYCOMCO. However, there are several sites around the Capital District operated by Capital Digitronics and others on 800 MHz (several smaller companies), plus the City of Albany has two systems and the Town of Colonie has one. I haven't done the detailed analysis according to the Plan to figure out whether either municipal entity actually needs to reband. However, some of the business systems occupy frequencies in the lower 120 channels where at least some relocations will be mandatory, and they have not moved yet.

We are south of Line A and have the Adirondacks between us and any other 800 MHz users who might be in Wave 4 (like Clinton County), so I don't know if there is a "border" issue here. Without compromising any of your clients, can you shed some light on what is or is not happening around Albany, NY?

Thanks for taking the time to keep hobbyists informed, by the way.

[AlanTilles]

I don't represent anyone else up there other than Capital Digitronics. And Capital has completed its reband.

Alan Tilles

[mypoppa]

Please!Your scanner will or will not receive the new rebanding.