Second part of Ryans question.

[K0ATC]

The second part of the question regarding posts being closed by moderators was as follows. Why do some moderators take it upon them selves to close a post that "they" feel has received an adiquit answer? Unless you have a very deep understanding of every subject covered on the forum, I do not think it is the moderators place to close a post unless their is some type of misbehavior. The definition of moderate is to avoiding extremes of behavior or expression and to observe reasonable limits, it has nothing to do with opinion. I've noticed the same things that Ryan has mentioned, and though you answered the portion of his question about the tavern "adiquitly" the second part, and most important in my opinion was overlooked.

Scott

 

[landonjensen]

I must agreee though 90% of threads in the tavern go down the tube eventually.

 

[landonjensen]

Also, just some advice, dont open a thread up again after a moderator / admin has closed it, they are always closed for a well being reason. Specially if the boss closed it. :wink:

 

[Grog]

The fact is, there are a few mods on here that are very heavy-handed. Most forums do a good job at choosing good mods, too bad we have a few that let the power go to their head

 

[crashcrew]

though you answered the portion of his question about the tavern "adiquitly" the second part, and most important in my opinion was overlooked.

Adiquitly??

 

[K0ATC]

Crashcrew, if your post is in reference to the spelling, sorry, couldn't find it my self, I just didn't want to change the wording of Ryan's question. If you don't think they answered the question about the tavern properly, then please let them know.

Landon, I know what you are saying, but it is a fair question and deserves a good answer, this is not a flame or an attack on moderators, we are just stating facts and would like the mods to review what their roll is and maybe reconsider before closing a post. Most posts are closed for good reason, but there are some that are not.

The members of this forum are what make it what it is, everyone would agree that we should all have a say in how things go on the site, or at least be able to voice our opinions without getting unruly, and without our posts being closed. There is no place for flames and improper behavior on this forum and when that sort of thing happens the moderators should close the post. Everyone has done it at least once, no ones perfect, but if you want your opinion on any subject to be taken seriously, you have to refrain from acting like a fool.

Scott

 

[loumaag]

Scott,

Let me address the question you asked and I will leave the spelling and grammar problems out of the mix. Topics that are closed after an answer has been given to the OP's query are usually done for one of three reasons:

1. The topic is well known and has been discussed many times in the past, here is where the "search" function should have been used but wasn't. Normally these types topics are only left open if the OP is a newer member and then only until the question is addressed.
2. The dreaded "topic drift" has taken over the thread. A topic that is asked, answered and then wanders into another subject should be closed, if indeed the new subject is really interesting, sometimes we (moderators) will split the off topic posts into a new thread. Mostly though we just comment on the "topic drift" and close it.
3. Tolling will cause the topic to be closed and since the best thing to do with a troll is not feed it, usually no comment is made about why the topic is closed or if any comment is made it may seem like an inadequate one.

All that said, there is a private forum just for moderators, there are guidelines for the moderators and finally the moderators must answer to the "boss"; and believe me, he is much rougher on us in private than he is to members in public. If we were doing things wrong, we would know about it and indeed would not remain moderators. Although Lindsay has a lot on his plate, this site is very important to him and he pays a lot of attention to what is going on (even if he doesn't seem to publicly).

[soapbox]
I would like to add something to Lindsay's answer about closing threads in general and specifically about the ones in the Tavern and also make another comment.

Mostly threads that are closed come to the attention of the moderators because some regular member has complained about it. Complaints usually run the gambit of issues dealing with subject matter, flame wars and vulgar language. If it was up to me (and it is not) flamers and obscenity spewers would receive an "instant" week's vacation from being able to post at all and repeat offenders would find themselves banned. It is beyond my understanding how supposedly intelligent people cannot express themselves without resorting to name-calling or vulgarity.

The second group of people I find a problem are those who complain in private (and sometimes in public) about other members who usually are right on subject matters that they know very well. I will not name names, but there a member on this board who people are constantly complaining about, and yet he never has an unkind word to say about others and yet his opinions on subjects that he does professionally are always called into question by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
[/soapbox]

 

[mciupa]

No one forces us to stay here if we don't like the rulings.

Why hang around here if you feel things aren't fair ?

 

[loumaag]

Attn: K0ATC

Scott,

I would have replied to your PM, but you are blocking reception of PM's.

In reference to your additional comment, I was actually trying to express disdain for the practice.

 

[godskidz]

Let it go

Why cant certain people drop things.
It has to go on and on.
You all are like a woman and have to get the last word in
Give it a rest.

 

[WayneH]

Folks need to understand that there are a lot of members on this board (over 100k) and though they don't all actively post a good majority of them do. Within the active community are individuals that like to push buttons, antagonize and generally complain because they can and it gets them attention. I have yet to see anyone who mods on a board as large as this with similar users criticize the moderation team. Most of the time it comes from people who have not been in our shoes or don't have the experience to even comment. It can seriously be taxing sometimes, especially dealing with the people whose sole purpose is to cause trouble on here. We're human and sometimes we don't have the patience to coddle someone because they did wrong. You have to look at it this way....things could be worse.

If there are people on here who think they can do a better job, treat everyone equally, and smile when someone tells you to F' off in a PM then I encourage them to step up to the plate. You'll be quick to learn that having a lot of patience is never enough.

And to address Grog, there are no moderators on here with power trips. The few of you that seem to think this is so can pass all the judgement you want but it is far from the truth. You can continue to misinterpret all you want because nothing's going to change.

 

[ryangassxx]

No one forces us to stay here if we don't like the rulings.

Why hang around here if you feel things aren't fair ?

What kind of lame thing is that to say? I THOUGHT the leaders of this site were interested in hearing about what it's members thought about the site and what could be improved. This is the suggestions forum isn't it?

I merely posted about the seemingly excessive closing of topics and expressed my dissatisfaction of it in a calm and reasonable manner. Now, if this forum was actually here to learn of member's opinions of the site and it wasn't just a farse, maybe when several people agree with my view, it should have been considered or questioned more seriously. Instead the topic was ironically enough closed.. Apparently the moderators felt that the discussion was over. I guess that's my whole point. It's seems like the moderators here have the mentality that ALL topics need to be closed by default, and that they should only remain open as long as this that and the other.. I see that as a bass ackwards way of moderating a forum.

I think a lot of the mods here could take a chill pill overall.. I think one major reason why so many topics get closed is because there's so many of them are who are on such a power trip that they in a weird way sort of get off on going around and "flexing their muscle".

I mean we're not the general population of a prison that need to constantly be kept in line. We're all here contributing to the site by being productive members, and purchasing premium memberships. We are in essence THE SITE.. I think we deserve a bit more respect than what we get from the moderating staff.

 

[loumaag]

Emphsis added by me:

What kind of lame thing is that to say? I THOUGHT the leaders of this site were interested in hearing about what it's members thought about the site and what could be improved. This is the suggestions forum isn't it?

I merely posted about the seemingly excessive closing of topics and expressed my dissatisfaction of it in a calm and reasonable manner. Now, if this forum was actually here to learn of member's opinions of the site and it wasn't just a farse, maybe when several people agree with my view, it should have been considered or questioned more seriously. Instead the topic was ironically enough closed.. Apparently the moderators felt that the discussion was over. I guess that's my whole point. It's seems like the moderators here have the mentality that ALL topics need to be closed by default, and that they should only remain open as long as this that and the other.. I see that as a bass ackwards way of moderating a forum.

I think a lot of the mods here could take a chill pill overall.. I think one major reason why so many topics get closed is because there's so many of them are who are on such a power trip that they in a weird way sort of get off on going around and "flexing their muscle".

I mean we're not the general population of a prison that need to constantly be kept in line. We're all here contributing to the site by being productive members, and purchasing premium memberships. We are in essence THE SITE.. I think we deserve a bit more respect than what we get from the moderating staff.

I was going to divide your post up and comment individually, but instead I will merely point out the falsehood in your statement.

You started a thread talking about excessive closing of posts. No one agreed with you, the only response was someone disagreeing with you and then Lindsay explained why they are closed and closed that thread. You did have a second point in that original thread and it was addressed earlier in this thread.

Perhaps if you stop and think that when you make statements that a blatantly false, people lose respect for your opinions. In the above quote you also claim the majority of the moderators are on a "power trip" and enjoy "flexing" their muscle; you are ignorant of anything that has to do with moderating on this site. One would have thought the fact that the Webmaster shut you down in the other thread would have given you the hint that you are talking, but not saying anything.

 

[JoeyC]

The mods here are WAAAAY lenient and I would hardly say they were on a power trip. If they were, they'd should probably close 90% of all these garbage threads that have NOTHING to do with what this website is all about.

No I don't come to RadioReference.com to hear about the latest youtube video. I use youtube for that.

No I don't come to RadioReference.com to gripe about or discuss Bush or politics. I can go to one of many websites that deal in politics.

No I don't come to RadioReference.com to discuss racial comments or the firing of a TV/Radio personality.

No I don't come to RadioReference.com to discuss what kind of car I should buy. I can think of better ways to determine which car is best for my needs.

No I don't come to RadioReference.com to discuss whether or not there exists a God.

No I don't come to RadioReference.com to figure out which cellular plan I want.

No I don't come to RadioReference.com to ***** about UPS and FedEx.

No I don't come to RadioReference.com to brag about how many lights I put on my wagon to pick up trash in the neighborhood.

I come to RadioReference.com to read and learn about radios issues, scanning issues and to get information to program my scanners.

Why can't the rest of you stick to the theme of the site and keep off-topic nonsense at myspace, youtube and forums that deal with whatever your are griping about and give the moderators some relief. I'm sure it gets old having to babysit some of the people that seem to have the majority of the topics they comment in - closed.

 

[Grog]

The mods here are WAAAAY lenient and I would hardly say they were on a power trip. If they were, they'd should probably close 90% of all these garbage threads that have NOTHING to do with what this website is all about.

Blah Blah Blah Blah

Why can't the rest of you stick to the theme of the site and keep off-topic nonsense at myspace, youtube and forums that deal with whatever your are griping about and give the moderators some relief. I'm sure it gets old having to babysit some of the people that seem to have the majority of the topics they comment in - closed.

The RR Tavern (7 Viewing)
This is the place to talk about off topic items of interest to the RadioReference.com community. The tavern is not a place to flame or attack others, or post just to increase your post count. Keep the discussions healthy and lively, but clean and civil.

If you don't want to read off topic stuff, then you might not want to visit the off topic area.


That's like me complaining about the kids making noise at Chucky Cheese :lol:

 

[SkipSanders]

The final bottom line here, is we are guests in a privately owned forum. You obey the rules, or you leave. Those are the bottom line choices.

The owners of the site decide what sort of site, and what sort of posts, they wish to have on their site. If they want to ban posts about left handed guatemalans, however silly that might be, it's their right. Just as it's your 'right' to not patronize the site, and thus make it less popular. <shrug>

 

[ryangassxx]

The final bottom line here, is we are guests in a privately owned forum. You obey the rules, or you leave. Those are the bottom line choices.

The owners of the site decide what sort of site, and what sort of posts, they wish to have on their site. If they want to ban posts about left handed guatemalans, however silly that might be, it's their right. Just as it's your 'right' to not patronize the site, and thus make it less popular. <shrug>

Yeah,.. and by that logic if you bought a cheese burger from an establishment and they screw up the order, you can either deal with it or leave....

Most of us here are indeed paying customers and that money certainly far exceeds the costs of operating and hosting this site. Don't even TRY and tell me otherwise.

I have to say that i'm pretty offended by the attitude of some of the staff in reference to my posts. Not so much the regular members but the staff members. What's with the lip? seriously? I make one criticism about a certain part of the site, and I have to have people jumping all over my case about it?

 

[ryangassxx]

Emphsis added by me:
I was going to divide your post up and comment individually, but instead I will merely point out the falsehood in your statement.

You started a thread talking about excessive closing of posts. No one agreed with you, the only response was someone disagreeing with you and then Lindsay explained why they are closed and closed that thread. You did have a second point in that original thread and it was addressed earlier in this thread.

Perhaps if you stop and think that when you make statements that a blatantly false, people lose respect for your opinions. In the above quote you also claim the majority of the moderators are on a "power trip" and enjoy "flexing" their muscle; you are ignorant of anything that has to do with moderating on this site. One would have thought the fact that the Webmaster shut you down in the other thread would have given you the hint that you are talking, but not saying anything.

And you'd know that because the topic was allowed to remain open for all of about 7 minutes... I'll have you know that i had indeed received PMs from more than one member agreeing with my views, and had the topic been allowed to remain open you might have seen more people express the same opinion.

So is it that you don't know what you're talking about or was the topic intentionally closed for the sake of preventing this particular view from being expressed by the members?

Oh yeah and one note worth pointing out,.. Who's the author of this topic? Oh, yeah, another member other than myself.. And why was this topic created? Uhm, probably because the other topic was CLOSED PREMATURELY.... Apparently there is merit to my argument.. So maybe instead of trying to shoot me down, you should just swallow your attitude for a minute and LISTEN! Or,.. you can run your forum your way, and find yourself with alot less members some day..

 

[WayneH]

<sigh> I really don't know what to say to this trite type of topic anymore. I don't know how many people is appropriate to emphasize that there is a serious problem here. Considering the number of active users here you have a loooooong way to go ryan. I don't understand why you continue to push this issue when you know it will not end in your favor (hence the closing previously; consider it a hint that spinning wheels get a lock). I understand you run forums also but unless you can provide one where it is in comparison to this one I don't think you have the full experience to comment on how moderator's should act.

Also, the whole some of the moderators are on a power-trip is just BS. I'm getting sick and GD tired of hearing that. Give me a break already. We're human and sometimes we don't have patience for some of the crap on here, and it shows. This will happen to anyone when you deal with this large of a forum, and put up with it on a daily basis. I'm not sure how many times I need to say this. No one is immune to that (that isn't on drugs).

FWIW, the true purpose of this forum is for the database. And a subscription does not imply any special features or capabilities for the forums, yet.

 

[loumaag]

Well Wayne addressed this a bit but let me reemphasize it so that it may sink in.

Most of us here are indeed paying customers and that money certainly far exceeds the costs of operating and hosting this site. Don't even TRY and tell me otherwise.

Actually the vast majority of the users are not premium subscribers, if you think you have facts to support otherwise, you better go back and check your figures. Once more a blatantly false, and unsupported statement. So not only will I TRY and tell you otherwise, I will tell you, once again you are talking about issues that you have no facts to support. BTW, I suspect that you have no idea what the monthly cost of running this site is.

And you'd know that because the topic was allowed to remain open for all of about 7 minutes... I'll have you know that i had indeed received PMs from more than one member agreeing with my views, and had the topic been allowed to remain open you might have seen more people express the same opinion.

So is it that you don't know what you're talking about or was the topic intentionally closed for the sake of preventing this particular view from being expressed by the members?

Once again, you express ideas that are not supported by the facts. 7 Minutes? Go back and look again; the first response (again as previously stated, disagreeing with you) was posted 11 minutes after your post. Oh wait, were you trying to be sarcastic...it is hard to tell since the majority of you posts contain untruths and inaccuracies.

Oh yeah and one note worth pointing out,.. Who's the author of this topic? Oh, yeah, another member other than myself.. And why was this topic created? Uhm, probably because the other topic was CLOSED PREMATURELY....

This topic was created because Scott also wondered about the reason topics that have an adequate answer get closed, and I will repeat again, since you don't seem to understand the first time something is explained, read above for the answer as to why.

Apparently there is merit to my argument.. So maybe instead of trying to shoot me down, you should just swallow your attitude for a minute and LISTEN! Or,.. you can run your forum your way, and find yourself with alot less members some day..

Suppose you take your own advice, and instead of trying to involve yourself in a war of words (that obviously you are ill prepared to wage) you "just swallow your attitude" and listen to what the vast majority of people who occupy this site say. As far as the "lot less members" threat you seem to be in love with, consider this fact; if you and a dozen of your friends left the site for good, it would represent a 0.01% blip in the membership. If you were to leave alone, it would mean a 0.000009% loss of membership, I think we would survive in either case; I mean, after all, we were doing pretty good before 12/26/2006 when you joined.