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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2006, 7:22 PM
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Default Motorola DTR 650 and 550 anyone??

Anyone using those new fancy frequency agile radios running in the 902-928 ISM band. I cannot seem to find any reviews etc.. Anyone have experience with these? No license and they seem to sell for 320-328 for the 650 model.

Do these radios use the entire 26Mhz band for the Hopset?
Anyone know what the Dwell time is for these guys?

How far compared to FRS in open air and urban areas?

Anyone play around with them and see what they look like on a spectrum analyzer or wideband reciever? Would be interesting to see how difficult it is to DF these radios.

These units look real interesting, it looks like you can generate a private netid for these guys via an 11char key that you use for your radionet and they sync clock! and you can remove any radio from the net that has been misplaced, its like having a civilian version of SINCGARS. If only the Army actually had something this nice and cheap for squad comms. (our armed forces guys are actually resorting to FRS at times) This looks like a much nicer alternative.

http://www.motorola.com/DTR/home.aspx

Last edited by hugodrax; 07-24-2006 at 7:23 PM.. Reason: error
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Old 07-24-2006, 7:54 PM
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I'm curious about them too! I'm a NEXTEL phone user and my i355 phone has off-network "direct talk" capability, different from the normal DirectConnect which works through the network. From what I've researched about the DTR portables and my phone's DT capability, it appears they are using the same technology.

NEXTEL's DT feature uses frequency hopping digital spread spectrum, identical to the DTR portables and they operate under Part 15 in the 902-928 band.

One thing different between the DTR portables and my phone in DT mode is the DTR portable has more text messaging capabilities.

Range is FRS-like and audio quality is EXCELLENT. The digital audio delay is a little bit longer than it would be through the NEXTEL network (about 1/2 sec on DT vs. 1/3 sec on network). My g/f has the same model NEXTEL phone as mine and we've played around with the DT feature a few times. We've used it inside Wal*Mart a few times, where we were at opposite ends of the store and needed to talk to each other but NEXTEL's coverage inside the building was spotty or nonexistent. DT worked out real well in that case.

It looks like my NEXTEL phone and the DTR portables share a common design. All of the accessories including batteries and chargers are compatible. My phone also has a pair of charger connections that look like the phone is designed to drop into a multi-unit charger that a business would use to charge a fleet of DTR portables.

It looks like NEXTEL's DT feature *MIGHT* be compatible with the DTR portables. If so it would be wicked cool and wicked useful!

Has anybody tried using NEXTEL's Direct Talk (DT) feature with a DTR portable? I'm curious to know if they are compatible.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2006, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugodrax
Anyone using those new fancy frequency agile radios running in the 902-928 ISM band. I cannot seem to find any reviews etc.. Anyone have experience with these? No license and they seem to sell for 320-328 for the 650 model.

Do these radios use the entire 26Mhz band for the Hopset?
Anyone know what the Dwell time is for these guys?

How far compared to FRS in open air and urban areas?

Anyone play around with them and see what they look like on a spectrum analyzer or wideband reciever? Would be interesting to see how difficult it is to DF these radios.

These units look real interesting, it looks like you can generate a private netid for these guys via an 11char key that you use for your radionet and they sync clock! and you can remove any radio from the net that has been misplaced, its like having a civilian version of SINCGARS. If only the Army actually had something this nice and cheap for squad comms. (our armed forces guys are actually resorting to FRS at times) This looks like a much nicer alternative.

http://www.motorola.com/DTR/home.aspx
WOW! The price is getting cheaper. It used to be around $500 IIRC.

I've looked at my NEXTEL's phone in DT mode on a spectrum analyzer at work (I'm an EMI/EMC engineer). It appears to use the entire 26MHz of spectrum in the band. When you key PTT, you'll see it transmit briefly and expect to hear an answerback from the other radio. Since I was at work and no other phone in DT mode was within range, mine stopped transmitting after about 1/2 second and gave me an "out of range" error message.

I have no idea about dwell time etc, other than it is a FHSS system. The 10 "channels" are non-overlapping groups in the FHSS sequence. Each "channel" also has 15 "codes" to function like CTCSS/DCS would on an analog radio. IIRC, the DTR portables and my NEXTEL phone's DT feature has the same number of channels and codes. If they're not compatible (i.e., DTR can't talk to NEXTEL phone in DT mode), it could be because they're using a different set of groups in the FHSS sequence. It looks like they both use the same system though. That's why I'm really curious to find out if they are compatible with each other. It would be wicked cool and wicked useful if are compatible. It opens up huge possibilities for uses. ARE YOU READING THIS MOTOROLA????? :-)

The PTT chirp heard is a slower version of the normal NEXTEL DirectConnect chirp. Motorola designed it to sound distinctly different so you can tell what mode you're in.

Range appears to be at least what a good pair of FRS portables can get under different conditions. The reliable range I've gotten in DT mode on my phone is very FRS-like.

Although they use FHSS, I don't know if they do any encryption or not. IOW, although it's FHSS, "clear" mode could simply be data in and data out, without passing the data through an encryption algorithm. On my phone in DT mode, it does have the ability to make a private DT call, like on the DTR portables. The 11-digit ID is 1 plus the area code and phone number of the other phone you're calling. Very simple to figure out and easy to remember. This might be used as a simple encryption key in a private mode.

I think the Direct Talk (DT) feature on some NEXTEL phones is simply a stripped down version of what's in the DTR portables.

YES, these are real interesting! I may be in the market for a pair of these eventually. It would be wicked cool and wicked useful if the DTR portables are compatible with NEXTEL's DT feature.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2006, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das
WOW! The price is getting cheaper. It used to be around $500 IIRC.

I've looked at my NEXTEL's phone in DT mode on a spectrum analyzer at work (I'm an EMI/EMC engineer). It appears to use the entire 26MHz of spectrum in the band. When you key PTT, you'll see it transmit briefly and expect to hear an answerback from the other radio. Since I was at work and no other phone in DT mode was within range, mine stopped transmitting after about 1/2 second and gave me an "out of range" error message.

I have no idea about dwell time etc, other than it is a FHSS system. The 10 "channels" are non-overlapping groups in the FHSS sequence. Each "channel" also has 15 "codes" to function like CTCSS/DCS would on an analog radio. IIRC, the DTR portables and my NEXTEL phone's DT feature has the same number of channels and codes. If they're not compatible (i.e., DTR can't talk to NEXTEL phone in DT mode), it could be because they're using a different set of groups in the FHSS sequence. It looks like they both use the same system though. That's why I'm really curious to find out if they are compatible with each other. It would be wicked cool and wicked useful if are compatible. It opens up huge possibilities for uses. ARE YOU READING THIS MOTOROLA????? :-)

The PTT chirp heard is a slower version of the normal NEXTEL DirectConnect chirp. Motorola designed it to sound distinctly different so you can tell what mode you're in.

Range appears to be at least what a good pair of FRS portables can get under different conditions. The reliable range I've gotten in DT mode on my phone is very FRS-like.

Although they use FHSS, I don't know if they do any encryption or not. IOW, although it's FHSS, "clear" mode could simply be data in and data out, without passing the data through an encryption algorithm. On my phone in DT mode, it does have the ability to make a private DT call, like on the DTR portables. The 11-digit ID is 1 plus the area code and phone number of the other phone you're calling. Very simple to figure out and easy to remember. This might be used as a simple encryption key in a private mode.

I think the Direct Talk (DT) feature on some NEXTEL phones is simply a stripped down version of what's in the DTR portables.

YES, these are real interesting! I may be in the market for a pair of these eventually. It would be wicked cool and wicked useful if the DTR portables are compatible with NEXTEL's DT feature.
Cool so they use 10 fixed hopsets I wonder how many discrete frequencies compromise each set. Motorola is being real stingy regarding disclosing the details Anyhow I seriously doubt they use any comsec on these radios and honestly for civilian purpose use its a little overkill anyways, you get more than enough security with the capability of generating your own FH patterns via your 11 digit private group id.

Sure would beat FRS in crowded areas where kids like to key up and jam up the channels etc.. I would not be surprised to see these radios sell for 220-250 as they ramp up production and costs go down, Motorola is not doing a great job marketing this. for itinerant use I see no point in spending money buying those color dot radios or GMRS sets and the associated interference/lack of privacy. I wonder if eventually you will see bubblepack sets operating on a more simple interface for like 50 bucks a set.

found the manual online. Anyhow quick glance indicates 10 hopsets each composed of 50 frequencies.

Last edited by hugodrax; 07-24-2006 at 10:35 PM..
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2006, 1:53 PM
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I have a pair for personal use, and at work we have 18 and gang chargers for use at events.

Range wise outdoors is anywhere from 1/2 mile with obstructions, to 2+ miles with a clear line of sight. I've used them in downtown and suburban Houston as well as here in FL, and there wasn't any intermod or other interferrance noted. Much better in range than what I've got from Moto Talkabouts. They seem to propogate better indoors. I've not had problems using them in convention halls and hotels, and even across multiple floors. If you seem to be in a dead spot, you can move a few feet over and usually get your call through when you try again.

I setup a few common groups that all of the radios belonged to, and some sub groups. I changed the default group on radios so folks that just PTT every time wouldn't by default key up everyones radio. They'd have to select the "All call" group to do that. I also trained them on how to select a specific radio contact from the directory on the radio, and talk directly to each other. Even though I had them on a common channel, multiple pairs of radios can talk at the same time due to the FH nature of the comms.

I've looked at a Nextel with DT capability, and the radio ID number scheme seemed different than the DTR's, but I may be mistaken.

The texting, and direct radio call, and over the air programming and monitoring features are on the top end models, there's also lesser DTR models that lack them.

Ed
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:55 AM
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Wow nice, I wonder if they will eventually start selling a cheaper less technical model for the regular public, it is unlicensed ISM 1watt and FH. I heard walmart is using these radios.
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Old 08-02-2006, 3:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugodrax
Wow nice, I wonder if they will eventually start selling a cheaper less technical model for the regular public, it is unlicensed ISM 1watt and FH. I heard walmart is using these radios.
I've heard that too about Wal*Mart.

If a DTR portable set up on a "public" talkgroup (channel/code combination) can talk to a NEXTEL phone in DirectTalk mode (same channel/code combinatinon), THAT would be wicked cool and wicked useful. HAS ANYBODY TRIED THIS YET? They appear to use the same technology. If this works, I could potentially monitor Wal*Mart on my NEXTEL phone in DT mode.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2006, 2:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das
I've heard that too about Wal*Mart.

If a DTR portable set up on a "public" talkgroup (channel/code combination) can talk to a NEXTEL phone in DirectTalk mode (same channel/code combinatinon), THAT would be wicked cool and wicked useful. HAS ANYBODY TRIED THIS YET? They appear to use the same technology. If this works, I could potentially monitor Wal*Mart on my NEXTEL phone in DT mode.

and talk to them, on their "uber-secure" talkies...
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Old 11-05-2007, 8:14 PM
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I just order the DTR410 and I'm planing on getting another one In a month or two.

Is the voice audio of these radios digital, kind of like the the voice audio of an XTS3000 or XTS5000 voice audio is digital. I've read somewere that these radio's use Vselp?.
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Old 11-06-2007, 9:17 AM
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yay motorola/nextel gets to screw another band lol

instead of public safety its now the entire 33cm ham band... on well, time to pump up the watts
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Old 11-06-2007, 1:38 PM
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these do look pretty sweet ... I found the 550 for around $270 .. pricey!
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Old 11-06-2007, 6:54 PM
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Can you give me the link to the site that you found the DTR550 for $270.00?.

Here's the link to were I order my DTR410, this Is the cheapest I've found them on the Internet so far, hope this link helps people looking to get these radios. Also Motorola provides the CPS to program these radios for free, you can download It from Motorola's DTR web site via the link below. You do not need the Cps to program these radio's as they are field programmable. From what I read, these radios operate the same as digital trunked radio's do, should be interesting when I do some field testing with them once I get a second one from Tech Wholesale and/or the DTR550 when the link Is posted.

I do have one question for anyone who has used the Motorola DTR's, the user manual advise that when you push the PTT you have wait for an alert just as you would have to when using trunked radios or Nextel. My question Is can anyone advise me, what does the alert sound like, Is It the same as the three rapid beeps you here when using Motorola trunked radios and Nextel phones?.

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Old 11-06-2007, 7:06 PM
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This place has them for $275.00
http://www.blinkwave.com/radio_learn...FQ66PAoddGb2_g
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Old 11-06-2007, 8:02 PM
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Thanks for the reply, from what I've read online the DTR550 gets better range then the DTR410 due too It's antenna.

Any word yet from anyone about what the PTT alert tone sounds like on the DTR radios?.
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Last edited by wolverine; 11-06-2007 at 8:56 PM..
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Old 11-06-2007, 8:13 PM
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he beat me to it

my link was for blinkwave as well ...

http://www.blinkwave.com/radio_learn...FRHOhgodKmYYyg

Last edited by pogbobo; 11-06-2007 at 8:17 PM..
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Old 11-10-2007, 6:11 PM
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Just received my Motorola DTR410 a couple of days ago and this radio is a very solid yet lightweight radio. Dont have the second radio to test them however these radios operate the same way Motorola trunked radio's operate.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:51 AM
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Sorry to reply so late, but I just saw this. I used a pair of these on a cruise ship back in 2006. They worked pretty good and offer excellent privacy. The range on the ship was better than a 4 watt pair of UHF Motorola Visar's I brought the year before. I have used FRS on cruise ships before and it is not too good, a bunch of people have them. The DTR's do have a slight delay. The voice quality is very good also. I see some of the newer DTR's have a removable antenna so you can put a higher gain 900mhz antenna on. I bought a pair of DTR 550's from Maryland Radio, they seem to have the best prices. When you press the PTT you get the Nextel direct connect beep sound and if no radio is in range you get a lower tone beep. On the RX end the radio beeps twice like a Nextel when a message is received.
 

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