Cable TV phones and 911

[pinetree]

I am looking for any information as to whether 911 centers will be able to get information as to location etc. from the phone systems now installed on cable TV systems such as Comcast. There seems to be concern in our fire service that at the present systems will not provide the same info as a hard wired system.

[trafficdan]

Im betting this will be the same as the Vonage issues and need to be routed specifically by the provider.

[Jay911]

My experience with it with my center is that it depends on the provider. In a number of cases we're getting the location information and phone number as if it were a POTS (plain old telephone service) system. The very first, earliest VoIP systems that hooked up to us, though, actually showed up with the location of the point where the call transitioned over from the Internet to the hard wired network. In other words, if an Internet provider is based in Boston, and has a subscriber who lives in Pittsburgh, and that person dials 911 on their VoIP phone, the call would travel thru the internet until it reached the telephone network, where it would place a call to 911. Since the link between the internet and the telephone network is in Boston, the 911 call not only gets picked up in Boston, but has the phone number and location information of the data center of the internet service provider!

Luckily I think all of those type of systems have disappeared. The ones I've seen lately have actual addresses and phone numbers showing up.

[PJH]

All the cable/digital telephone stuff has been coming in as normal calls. Its the "true" VoIP stuff such as Vonage that needs the correct information supplied to the 911 Center's provider database.

These records are kept by the Telco compaines, not the 911 center.

[car2back]

We're still having trouble with voIP in my area; but the cable based telephones seem to be OK (there's not a whole of them, though).

Then again, half of one county we answer for (Osage) still has not been setup for the E911 system

[jim202]

There has been considerable work done on this issue to provide the correct
address info when the VOIP phone is used. It is up to the service providers
to insure that the correct information is passed to the PSAP centers.

On the down side of this is that if someone takes this type of phone on the
road for say a work trip, the 911 address location that was registered will
be the one that shows up. Not the physical location of where the phone
was being used.

Jim

Originally Posted by pinetree

I am looking for any information as to whether 911 centers will be able to get information as to location etc. from the phone systems now installed on cable TV systems such as Comcast. There seems to be concern in our fire service that at the present systems will not provide the same info as a hard wired system.

[electricman]

I dont understand why people are not instructed to use their home phone, even if you disconnect your service with your phone company, all you have to do is keep a phone hooked up to a jack and you can call 911, problem solved. It works the same as a cell phone that you have disconnected, you can still use it to call 911, at least in my neck of the woods.

[PJH]

If service is actually disconnected from the phone company, that wall jack will not do a thing. If you haven't paid your bill, you can usually still call 911, just nothing else.

In addition, many people who have VoIP services as a home phone will interface their house wiring to the VoIP router (2 min worth of work).

Then again, we still have people who call from their crappy cellphones on 911 while there is a normal house phone next to them. Sheesh.

One point of clairification, the big Telco's are the 911 ALI database holders (Verizon, SBC/AT&T etc). These are tightly secured and controlled. This is why they put up a big fight with how the FCC wanted the VoIP people to have access, and what information is provided. The VoIP provider is responsible for getting the accruate information from the subscriber, then forward it on to Verizon etc. The Telco then fowards that information onto the 911 center for the call. The local 911 centers DO NOT have any ALI information. When a 911 call comes in, that information is transmitted from the Telco database to the 911 screen.

FWIW, the ALI format is the same nationwide.

[electricman]

Originally Posted by PJH

If service is actually disconnected from the phone company, that wall jack will not do a thing. If you haven't paid your bill, you can usually still call 911, just nothing else.

I dont know if it is nationwide but here in MI (or at least with my phone co.) even if phone is disconnected you can still call 911 possibly the operator also, but no other call. Always thought if you dont pay your bill they disconnect service? Obviously if your drop is cut you are SOL.

Originally Posted by PJH

In addition, many people who have VoIP services as a home phone will interface their house wiring to the VoIP router (2 min worth of work).

True, but it would be just as quick to leave one phone hooked up and dedicated for 911.

[car2back]

.........Edit: I found what I was looking for

[red8]

Yeah but I hear on TV all the time voip and that it may not work in a
disaster, well guess what? If you have a disater like Katrina? It could
knock out all systems ; landline, cellular,even computerized communications like your Vonage, cable tv phone hookups. I know
because after hurricane Katrina there was no way the people down
in New Orleans could contact via cell or regular telephones .

[AZScanner]

I used to work for a cable telephone provider and can definitively state that when you dial 911 they can see your info just as if you were connected via Ma Bell's network. As part of my training, I was even treated to a tour of the telephone switch that routed all the calls in to and out of the network. Slick setup. In addition to having to be able to provide your info to 9-1-1, they also had to demonstrate overall 99.95% network uptime to obtain and keep FCC certification to offer residential telephone service. When I had phone service thru the cable company it was MORE reliable than POTS (and as an employee it was TONS cheaper too... sigh - I still miss that job years later).

-AZ

[PJH]

It depends on the area and how much service they like to cut. Although it doesn't happen as much as it did, some Telco's or regions can/have/will disconnet your drop (usually at the neighborhood box).

We get calls from disconnected phones, the ALI screen will show all the information but will add a "no callback available" tag.

As for "just keep a line for 911", why? That's the whole point of going VoIP...no longer on the phone companies list. Why pay $25/month for VoIP then another $25-40/month just to keep one line active? In addition, most people who do residental VoIP will port their number from the Telco to the VoIP, so that line will die anyways.

Using VoIP is really no different than landline. Both are able to be knocked out just as easily in a storm, MVA etc. The major difference is that you should have a UPS installed at the VoIP unit to ensure contiuned access. In either case, most people who subscribe to such services usually has a cell phone anyways...

[electricman]

I guess you did not understand what I was saying, the phone should still work to call 911 even if it is disconnected, so there would be no point in paying for service to the phone company if you are going with VoIP. Leave one phone jack wired to the disconnected phone service and dedicate that phone for 911 only. Problem solved.

I do not know of any phone company that physically disconnects your line, CATV yes but phone is disconnected in the office.

[Thayne]

2 things: POTS often hard disconnects the line when service is stopped by the customer; and I can't imagine anyone thinking any service provided by a cable Co would be more reliable than POTS--