I found a P25 trunked system I can't identify.

[KD7HGK]

Originally Posted by jfhtm350

That NAC code is pretty high up the chain. Check it out.
Federal NAC Codes - The RadioReference Wiki

Do they give any clues as to who they are or just sparatic conversation?

They have it as site 002 instead of NAC 002 in the database. Are you sure it was a NAC code or a SID number?

Definitely the NAC. The system does not give a SID or even a site number. The "R002" discussed earlier is in the bottom middle of the screen below the frequency not in the upper right in the site number field. The screen alternates between showing the frequency and the NAC.

[rkm1215]

Think the database update was premature and incorrect as the system id shows 0372h on my Uniden. There is a-002 after it which would designate site 2 to me.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[MtnBiker2005]

Good info!
So we now know this newer P25 System ID is 372

Anyone able to grab the Pro96Com tower report for this system. ?

[rkm1215]

The ORNL system is Motorola mixed mode. The control channel (406.1125) doesn't show with DAT next to it meaning it isn't full APCO P25

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[KD7HGK]

the PSR-500 is confusing. It tells me that the Control Channel is P25, but when I switch the trunk system type to Motorola VHF/UHF, the signal strength drops (from 99% in the parking lot of the YMCA to 2% in the same location) and the radio tries to give me a site number and SID. Why would the scanner indicate a P25 signal and not give me an SID and site number and when switched to Motorola VHF/UHF, why would it try to give me an SID and site number? I guess I'll have to head back to Clinton Highway and see if the Motorola VHF/UHF settings work any better over there (better location)

[WayneH]

Originally Posted by KD7HGK

Why would the scanner indicate a P25 signal and not give me an SID and site number and when switched to Motorola VHF/UHF, why would it try to give me an SID and site number?

The scanner won't tell you what type of system it is. You have to plug the freq in to Tune mode and deduce that. When you put the CC in Tune mode, what does it print out? Also, if you Store it from Tune mode it will create the correct system and type.

Motorola VHF/UHF is only for the older 3600 systems. Based on what I've read so far it seems like a true P25 trunked system.

Whenever the details are figured out the system can get added to the database. It's not the Oak Ridge system, which I fixed and though has a host of TG errors, so please no DB Admin add info from this thread to it.

[surfacemount]

A lot of people get confused over DOE-ORO. Let me see if I can help:

In The Beginning, the forerunner of the Department of Energy swiped a buncha land here. They set up three distinct and seperate facilities, K25, Y12 and X10.

The only one remaining in its' 1940's status / footprint is Y12. That's where they make the bomb parts, crazy shiznet for the Navy, and a bunch of other stuff under the Work For Others program. They have some of the best metalworkers on the planet there, and I'm proud of them.

K25 went tits up years ago. Partially due to environmentalistas, but also because we now have more of their product on hand than we can burn up in several lifetimes. They mostly are knocking down the plant, and have put a sort of industrial park there, ETTP (East Tennessee Technology Park).

X10/the reactor/hollifield heavy ion/oak ridge associated universities/orise and several other projects basically sort of morphed into the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. They do everything, but not really the bomb stuff. Superfast computers, lots of biological and environmental research.

Then there is the SNS (Spallation Neutron Source). I know jack about it. They are starting to build demonstration reactors at the old Clinch River Breeder Reactor site, now as well.

The only "real" DOE facility is the Oak Ridge Federal Building (aka battleship). The people in there work directly for the Department of Energy. At Y12 and ORNL & friends, they are US Government property, US Government toys, and US Government money, but managed by various corporations. 9 out of 10 people working in those places from the operators to the SPO's get a check cut from a subcontractor, who gets it from the prime/master contractor, who then gets it from DOE.

If that's not confusing enough, DOE then spun off the nuc building business to a subgroup called NNSA (the National Nuclear Security Administration). So, Y12 is under NNSA, and ORNL & Friends are under both DOE and NNSA.

SO.

Y12 had their own radio system since The Beginning, the VHF-Hi band one. Y12 does not play well with others. So, you had Y12 Ops and Proforce on one radio system, the rest of Oak Ridge Operations / Oak Ridge Area Security on another system, the City of Oak Ridge on yet another, Anderson, Roane and Loudon counties on three others.

People said enough was enough, and they wanted a Wide Area Radio System. Y12 said fine, but only if we run it. The ORO said hell naw, and they fought for a long time. This resulted in a frankensystem, where you still have some Federal VHF high band radio traffic by civilian contractors, and fedgov UHF P25 trunking all at the same time.

No other outside agency maintains an active presence on WARS, although they all have a patch capability. Oak Ridge is still an island unto itself on 800 type I/II, and the surrounding counties are VHF/UHF/TVTRS (Knox County being on 800, but not really compatible with OR).

This is why you rarely hear anything on WARS besidesFire / EMS (Y12 has their own). Security is generally encrypted, operations are generally low power or by phone. Construction uses direct instead of the system, I suspect.

I haven't kept up with it, but I was guessing that via attrition the legacy VHF systems were getting increasingly quiet, but I guess not.

To my knowledge there is no tower 2 or 3. I have seen tower 4 and 1 personally. 1 is inside the fence at Y12, and 4 is behind ETTP if I recall correctly, but they may have shuffled stuff. DOE has a huge number of radios and towers around here.

So, google WARS for a little more.

Then of course, Y12 has an ultrawideband superdooper multimedia comms system seperate from even WARS (think handheld full motion video, conferencing, etc) they are trying to impress everyone with you can read much more about because they want to spin it off, license it and make money from it.

The Bull Run Train is a train you can get on at ETTP and ride around. Pretty neat stuff actually.

surfaceMount

[KD7HGK]

I managed to hear a conversation where a person's full name was used. I googled him and identified him as a maintenance supervisor for TVA. Once I do some direction finding (I have some strong evidence I know what plant the guys with), and positively ID what facility the signal is coming from, I'll request the system be added to the database. All I know for sure right now is it's a P25 trunked system.

[jfhtm350]

Do you know about how far the signal stretches over towards my way? I can pick up the Oak Ridge System here, but It doesnt come in clear enough to understand anything. Sounds like it is encrypted or digital blotter like I am on the fringe of it. So your system is either down in the Oak Ridge hole or lower power.

[KD7HGK]

Originally Posted by jfhtm350

Do you know about how far the signal stretches over towards my way? I can pick up the Oak Ridge System here, but It doesnt come in clear enough to understand anything. Sounds like it is encrypted or digital blotter like I am on the fringe of it. So your system is either down in the Oak Ridge hole or lower power.

I can pick it up sporadically here in Knoxville. It comes in clear and strong in 3 locations:

1. Clinton Highway Walmart Parking Lot

2. Turkey Creek Walmart Parking Lot

3. Just as clear but not as strong in the parking lot of the Kingston Pike Walmart and along Kingston Pike.

[milf]

Nows when you wish you had an handheld yagi lol. Then you could do a directional sweep, and like triangulate the basic central location.

[jfhtm350]

Well I figured I would tune to the Oak Ridge System on 409.8875 200 NAC and see if it is still the same old digital blotter. Havent tuned to it in a while because it is annoying but I keep it in my back pocket. To my surprise some transmissions are coming in the clear with 2 to 3 bars of signal and the other half is that digital blotter. Never heard anything I could actually understand before. So I guess it was encrypted the whole time. There also seems to be alot more traffic than there was when I tuned to it last. I tried to tune to your system and see if I could at least hear the control channel noise and still nothing from here.

[VynylScratch]

Picking it up clear as day in Clinton with my 36" RS antenna, the only problem is I have an 895xlt so no digital, but it does have a tap and I've had Unitrunker open for a while now.

[twistedpos]

I can't help but to wonder if this is not exactly why so many agencies go encrypted... Everyone here has already done the footwork for any terrorist that wanted to do a little listening in to Oak Ridge. Now I know what most everyone is going to say, you have the right to this an that... but still; just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[ecps92]

Me Smells a Troll under the bridge

Originally Posted by twistedpos

I can't help but to wonder if this is not exactly why so many agencies go encrypted... Everyone here has already done the footwork for any terrorist that wanted to do a little listening in to Oak Ridge. Now I know what most everyone is going to say, you have the right to this an that... but still; just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[RonnieUSA]

Originally Posted by twistedpos

I can't help but to wonder if this is not exactly why so many agencies go encrypted... Everyone here has already done the footwork for any terrorist that wanted to do a little listening in to Oak Ridge. Now I know what most everyone is going to say, you have the right to this an that... but still; just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Never Mind

[Skypilot007]

Originally Posted by ecps92

Me Smells a Troll under the bridge

Yes indeed...A P25.ca troll

Radioreference is aiding terrorists....

[motoapco25]

3 letters

[ecps92]

WoW - Glad they do enjoy Free Speech, but I guess it's a one-way Street

Originally Posted by Skypilot007

Yes indeed...A P25.ca troll

Radioreference is aiding terrorists....

[twistedpos]

It is funny how some people on Radio Reference who share steams and talkgroup lay-outs are the same ones surprised and offended when that system goes encrypted. Case in point, Nashville, TN. It's one thing to listen in just for your own benefit, but when you publish and stream information it takes it to a whole other level.

Though I don't expect the re-broadcasting of private RF traffic over the internet will be made illegal, despite that I believe it should be, what it will cause is more and more systems to go encrypted.

You must agree, this is a different world we live in than it was fifteen years ago. Scanner technology has come a long way. Agencies never had to worry about 99.9% of the scanner listeners, because they never broke the law and were respectful. This is a different world now and the scanner market has been opened up to a whole different group of people who aren't having to pay $500 for a scanner; instead they pay $5 for an app on their phone. It is ultimately the repeater licensee's choice if they want to keep their system open for all to listen in on or go encrypted. I can't help but think maybe Radio Reference has helped a little in their decisions.

Call it want you want. Call me whatever you want. I believe it highly ironic that the mother site for scanner enthusiasts may be a contributing factor in many systems investing in technology that prevents scanners from listening in.