Do we have a lift going on?

[reedeb]

Early morning 3-5 AM I'm hearing police chat on 453.675 PL 123.0 That is not dallas chatting as it's a fire channel these folks are Police. Anyone know who this might be? Unless we have a lift this is close by[inside antenna]

[W8RMH]

Originally Posted by reedeb

Early morning 3-5 AM I'm hearing police chat on 453.675 PL 123.0 That is not dallas chatting as it's a fire channel these folks are Police. Anyone know who this might be? Unless we have a lift this is close by[inside antenna]

Saginaw Police Dispatch
453.675 Search Results

What is a "lift"?

[reedeb]

Thanks. A lift is a ham term for skip. I noticed it died away and I don't hear em now. I might have a tiny lift [or skip] going on at times.

[nd5y]

Originally Posted by reedeb

Thanks. A lift is a ham term for skip.

Since when? I have been a ham since 1981 and never heard that term before.

[jim202]

Originally Posted by nd5y

Since when? I have been a ham since 1981 and never heard that term before.

I have been a ham since the early 60's and have never heard that term used to talk about any propagation. Never seen it used in any books or magazines. Use to work at the Mass Institute of Technology working with communications and HF propagation. Never heard that term used the whole 18 years I worked there.

How about explaining just where you got this term from.

[blangell]

Originally Posted by jim202

I have been a ham since the early 60's and have never heard that term used to talk about any propagation. Never seen it used in any books or magazines. Use to work at the Mass Institute of Technology working with communications and HF propagation. Never heard that term used the whole 18 years I worked there.

How about explaining just where you got this term from.

I let Google be my friend as I had not heard it before.

From.....Ham Radio Glossary of Terms

FALSE ROUTE
In a network using TheNET software the node routing is generated automatically by the nodes themselves. If improperly managed it is quite possible for routing to be discovered and used by the nodes such that DX propagation paths are treated as real paths. In this case a route may be created in the routing table that depends on '"Lift" or enhanced propagation conditions.

When the lift, dissappears (mostly during daylight hours) the nodes will be helplessly trying the "false route." This condition is preventable in a TheNET system by manually controlling the route tables to specify valid routes to neighbor nodes.

[reedeb]

Must be a New England thing then I learned it from my elmer [A radio tech BTW] and many others hams in Maine.

Brian I see your in goodole Somersworth [I used to play around there] Ask a ham if they use it a I have .]

[RadioDaze]

I thought "lift" was Brit for "elevator"

Guess those Old Englanders brought it with them to New England...

[loumaag]

That has got to be a regional thing. I too have been a ham (on & off) since 1968 and worked as a radio tech for a year or so (before the army grabbed me) and have never heard the term applied that way either.

[reedeb]

I asked a ham friend and THIS is his explanation.

Skip is the bending of signals when they interact with various charged particle layers that surround the earth.

Lift is the bouncing of signals between low (relatively speaking) layers of charged particules.
This condition frequently occurs along the edge of electrically active storms. The signal bounces between the
Layers, exiting hundreds of miles from its enterence point. Also called conduiting.

[jim202]

I think if you go back to the source of the posting, you will find that the author of that paper sort of uses the term rather loosely. It may even have been coined by him, I am not sure. However, I don't think that term is ever going to be widely accepted around the globe by any good communications person as the correct term for any atmospheric effect to cause out of the normal atmospheric communication effects. You will still hear the term ducting, skip and several other terms that have been used and accepted over the course of time.

Until we see this coined term used regularly in the engineering text books, it will probably pass and only be used by those that want to stand out and try to make a name for them selves.

[jim202]

Originally Posted by reedeb

I asked a ham friend and THIS is his explanation.

Skip is the bending of signals when they interact with various charged particle layers that surround the earth.

Lift is the bouncing of signals between low (relatively speaking) layers of charged particules.
This condition frequently occurs along the edge of electrically active storms. The signal bounces between the
Layers, exiting hundreds of miles from its enterence point. Also called conduiting.

I believe the proper term is ducting. It is very common on the low band channels and to some extent on the VHF band. on rare occasions, you might even see this happen on the lower UHF frequencies.

When I was living in New England, I could almost pick the occasions by just watching the storm fronts on the national weather charts. It was not uncommon for a large storm to be about mid way between the Gulf Coast and Canada to cause the ducting to occur. Depending on the speed of the storm it would last from just a few minutes to several hours in length. Stations along the Gulf would be able to talk with the stations in Canada. As the storms go closer to New England, the points of the two ends of the ducting would change. The New England stations might be able to talk with Texas and then as the storm moved to the north east, that other end point would shift more to the north and east on the distant end and then you would be able to talk with Arkansas, then Kentucky and maybe Tennessee. It would fade out after a while because the storm front would get to close to provide the right end points.

The stronger the storm front, the better the ducting would be.

[texasemt13]

"Lift" is about as correct as "skip." Neither accurately describes the true situation, and I'll leave it at that. This thread has digressed a little bit... I think that reedeb figured it out.