tx warn p 25 database error

[BobCrk]

I have a Radio Shack Pro 197 scanner with firmware ver 1.09 and using Win 500 ver 2.0.5. I live in Waco TX (Mclennan county). Today I was going to reprogram my scanner and when I got to the TX WARN talk group import I received this message "This system talkgroup is not supported by the PSR-500. Trunking information will not be transferred. But you can import the system’s frequencies in non-trunked(conventional mode). Do you wish to do this". I am still receiving traffic on these frequencies on my scanner. It looks like like the TXWARN has been changed from phase I to phase II. Has anyone else in the central Texas area come across this and what can be done as the majority of my radio traffic is on the TXWARN talk group?
Thanks in advance for any advice on this problem
BobC

[rattlerbb01]

Hmmm.....the system was just changed in the database to reflect that there is some Phase II activity. Most of the system is still Phase I at this time. Let me try ARC500 and see if it will let me download it.

[hiegtx]

Originally Posted by rattlerbb01

Hmmm.....the system was just changed in the database to reflect that there is some Phase II activity. Most of the system is still Phase I at this time. Let me try ARC500 and see if it will let me download it.

Rattler,
Win500 puts it's foot down & says 'since the system is Phase II, the radio can't use these talkgroups. Do you want the frequencies to try & listen conventionally' (That's paraphrased). PSREdit500 goes ahead & imports, even though the system is tagged as a "Phase II" (only) system. FreeScan also imports.

[rattlerbb01]

ARC500 appears to not recognize the P25 Phase II designation. It worked fine for the butel program.

[rattlerbb01]

Originally Posted by hiegtx

Rattler,
Win500 puts it's foot down & says 'since the system is Phase II, the radio can't use these talkgroups. Do you want the frequencies to try & listen conventionally' (That's paraphrased). PSREdit500 goes ahead & imports, even though the system is tagged as a "Phase II" (only) system. FreeScan also imports.

Yeah, looks like win500 is the only one lagging behind.

[Chauffeur6]

The Project 25 Phase II (TDMA) System Type (aka System Flavor) was only added very recently. To my knowledge, Win500 is the only software that scrutinizes the System Type and prevents you from downloading if it deems it as incompatible with the scanner. If you look at the import screen after you select the system, you'll see it displays Flavor <invalid>, which is what is preventing you from downloading anything. The software does not yet recognize the Project 25 Phase II (TDMA) System Type, which was added to the RR DB after Win500 v2.05 was released.

Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any type of override in the software, it's basically "idiot proof" for lack of a better term. You'd have to set the system up manually in the software for now, using copy/paste from the system's page in the database. That's the only workaround I can see at this time.

I've sent Don an email regarding this.

[DonS]

Win500 version 2.06 is on my web site. It supports the new system flavors that were added recently.

[rattlerbb01]

Well that was resolved quickly.

[BobCrk]

Thanks for everybody's input. Win 500 2.0.6 picked up the new flavor and scanner is alive and well
BobC

[Russell]

PSR800 software will not allow me to select TxWARN system for programming into scanner. There's a big fat X in front of TxWARN in all the import lists. Are we sure that TxWARN is a Phase II system or is it a Motorola X2/TDMA system? Motorola X2/TDMA is supposed to be supported by the scanner, Phase II is not. Which talkgroups on which site are TDMA? This is preventing me from downloading any TxWARN DB info into the scanner. Can we change it to Motorola X2/TDMA or back to Phase I?

Russell

[mfn002]

Originally Posted by Russell

PSR800 software will not allow me to select TxWARN system for programming into scanner. There's a big fat X in front of TxWARN in all the import lists. Are we sure that TxWARN is a Phase II system or is it a Motorola X2/TDMA system? Motorola X2/TDMA is supposed to be supported by the scanner, Phase II is not. Which talkgroups on which site are TDMA? This is preventing me from downloading any TxWARN DB info into the scanner. Can we change it to Motorola X2/TDMA or back to Phase I?

Russell

I don't really known which TGs are Phase II. It appears that the entire system is still Phase I, so I don't know why it was decided to change the system voice to Phase II, which would give most people the impression that the entire system is Phase II, and not Phase I like it actually is.

[UPMan]

From what I can tell, this is not a Phase 2 system. It is an X2 TDMA system (that is, it still uses a Phase 1 control channel). If anyone can scan this system with any scanner, then that would validate this, and the database should be changed to reflect the system type as X2 TDMA.

I cannot monitor the system from my location (but have other complaints to me that the system isn't loading on the HomePatrol-1, either). If you can monitor the system (by manually programmng it), please submit the correction to the appropriate dB page so that this can be fixed by an administrator.

[hiegtx]

Originally Posted by UPMan

From what I can tell, this is not a Phase 2 system. It is an X2 TDMA system (that is, it still uses a Phase 1 control channel). If anyone can scan this system with any scanner, then that would validate this, and the database should be changed to reflect the system type as X2 TDMA.

I cannot monitor the system from my location (but have other complaints to me that the system isn't loading on the HomePatrol-1, either). If you can monitor the system (by manually programmng it), please submit the correction to the appropriate dB page so that this can be fixed by an administrator.

I can hear the Kaufman TxWARN P25 700MHz site on my HP-1, and other Uniden scanners, from my home in Dallas.

The HP-1 has no trouble at all tracking the system. Neither do the 396XT's.

[motorola_otaku]

Originally Posted by mfn002

I don't really known which TGs are Phase II. It appears that the entire system is still Phase I, so I don't know why it was decided to change the system voice to Phase II, which would give most people the impression that the entire system is Phase II, and not Phase I like it actually is.

A listener on the HoustonScan mailing list reported seeing a DPS talkgroup and one of the Harris County radio tech talkgroups pop up as Phase II on the Houston simulcast site in one of the non-Unitrunker software packages. Once. Personally I'm not convinced that it wasn't a decode glitch on his end.

[DonS]

The control channel data I've seen for that system sure makes it look like it will (or does) handle Phase II TDMA, not X2 TDMA.

[Unitrunker]

Originally Posted by UPMan

From what I can tell, this is not a Phase 2 system. It is an X2 TDMA system (that is, it still uses a Phase 1 control channel).

The only difference between P1 and P2 (or X2) control channels is the addition of a few extra messages. The bit rate and modulation are the same. The voice channels are of course very different.

[DonS]

Originally Posted by Unitrunker

The only difference between P1 and P2 (or X2) control channels is the addition of a few extra messages. The bit rate and modulation are the same. The voice channels are of course very different.

Yep. And this system is using some of those P2 (not X2) messages on the CC.

Whoever changed the system to "X2" should probably change it back to P2 (or, if there is currently no P2 voice traffic on the system, back to plain old P1).

According to recent CC logs I've seen, X2 is just plain wrong. There are no "X2-specific" messages on the CC.

I wonder if the P1 vs. P2 vs. X2 (or combinations thereof) designation shouldn't be in the "system voice" field, instead of "flavor". That is, similar to a "Motorola Type II" system that has "Analog and P25 CAI" voice.

For example, type/flavor might indicate only "Project 25". Voice could be...
* Phase 1 FDMA
* Phase 2 TDMA
* Motorola X2 TDMA
* Phase 1 FDMA + Phase 2 TDMA
* Phase 1 FDMA + Motorola X2 TDMA

(Of course, it would be appreciated if consumers of the DB data had some advance warning of any such changes, so that scanners and software that should work don't suddenly stop working.)

[Russell]

Back to Phase II based on the arguments above. My heartburn comes in when radios (scanner) capable of monitoring the 99.9% of the FDMA talkgroups on the system lock out the entire system because one guy in Houston was playing with one TDMA talkgroup. I also agree that some DB changes may be in order to clarify the various configurations.

[OCO]

Originally Posted by Russell

Back to Phase II based on the arguments above. My heartburn comes in when radios (scanner) capable of monitoring the 99.9% of the FDMA talkgroups on the system lock out the entire system because one guy in Houston was playing with one TDMA talkgroup. I also agree that some DB changes may be in order to clarify the various configurations.

From the outside looking in.......why not leave it a Phase I system until the powers that be can shake this out. It's not hurting anything (after all, right now there is no production scanner that will receive PII anyway) and it will allow everyone with a P25 Phase I capable scanner to listen to all of the real traffic on the system. Its pretty well established that the only TDMA TG is for testing right now, why change things just to be "correct" when right now it means nothing?

Just IMHO from cold, snowy Michigan

[Unitrunker]

OCO's comment is an excellent short term solution.

I like Don's idea of using the system voice type. We really only need three types: P1, P2, and X2 with the understanding that P2 and X2 support FDMA calls. Software should exclude at the talkgroup level, not the system level.