Fort Worth P25

[Ensnared]

Originally Posted by GregHiggins

HIPPA? You're really out of touch if you think thats the reason!!! And like I've said previously, and we've been told this several times over the past year, the entire sytem will be encrypted, The city bought the complete package and from one of the radio shop guys, they plan to implement it all.

HIPPA has been one of the excuses used by some agencies, mainly EMS, that encryption has been selected. Also, some LE agencies are encrypting NCIC/Information channels & not others.

As far as Fort Worth, I don't know the reason(s) for encryption. That is why I am reviewing these posts & learning about things up there, attempting to keep "in touch" so to speak.

[jasday]

The simplist reason for encryption, because the technology is there and that they can. Unfortunately it is something that we will have to wait and see what will happen.

[procopper7005]

HIPPA has many LE exceptions and does not say anything about protecting radio traffic with encryption. Its a BS excuse.

LE is encrypted to keep criminals and media from knowing what the PD is doing. In my opinion dispatch TG's should remain in the clear and investigative and tactical TG's be encrypted.

[Ensnared]

Originally Posted by procopper7005

HIPPA has many LE exceptions and does not say anything about protecting radio traffic with encryption. Its a BS excuse.

LE is encrypted to keep criminals and media from knowing what the PD is doing. In my opinion dispatch TG's should remain in the clear and investigative and tactical TG's be encrypted.

Although, some might argue that "officer safety" is also a reason for the initiation of encryption, I don't buy that argument. In fact, I think it is the opposite. Encryption, sealed government dealings, government secrecy, & an overall lack of transparency in government in the presence of "terror war" spells trouble. What happened to sensible law enforcement & community trust?

Fort Worth, like many other cities, might find adverse consequences when the general public discovers they are hiding under the radar, no pun intended.

For me, it only increases my distrust. We surely don't want another Williamson county radio situation to happen.

If I'm ever asked for assistance, like being a witness to a crime, I might be inclined to encrypt my speech as well. The Fort Worth chief of police needs to get a grip.

[MaxTracker]

Originally Posted by Ensnared

Well, like I said, I won't be traveling through this area anymore given this development. This is taking HIPPA laws to the extreme.

This is starting to remind me of Williamson County. I seriously doubt the presence of encryption will significantly reduce the occurrence of index crimes. Oh well, IH35E it is.

The more Encryption that comes out on radio systems the Less UNIDEN will build state of the art scanners as UNIDEN's Stock will drop and they will go back to bank marketing noob radios. I think we have seen the best in scanning the future of scanning looks like it will be on 1970 style scanners listening to Aircraft, trains, hams and Wal-Mart stores ...

[reedeb]

I have to agree with Max here and THAT is the reason I won't be buying any new scanners. Use what I got and just keep on playing with ham radios and go back to CB. [I miss the good old days......sigh]

[mikeb]

I have a question. Would anyone who works for the company selling and or installing this or any other encrypted system as be able to program a radio on the system and monitor it for there own personal use.
Thanks

[nd5y]

It depends on the security arrangements in place for loading the keys in the radios.

[mmtstc]

HIPPA has NO encryption requirement for radio communication. Under HIPPA, radio communications that include protected health information are considered an incidental disclosure, and acceptable under the law.

[nd5y]

First you guys need to learn how to spell HIPAA.
Then you need to read 18 U.S.C. sections 2510, 2511, 2512 and 2513 (chapter 119) that deal with intercepting communications which are not readily accessible to the general public.

[GregHiggins]

Surprise today...........I received a phone call from a VERY reliable source who stated that FWPD will have encrypted channels but that FWFD will stay unencrypted. FYI................

[jasday]

Sweet!

[K5TXC]

That's great news Greg. I keep hoping the Citizens on Patrol group will go to the Chief and discuss encryption with him. If nothing is accomplished there, proceed to a City Council meeting to ask them what the police are trying to hide.

[Ensnared]

As I previously stated, some emergency responders use the excuse of HIPPA laws to justify encryption and/or restrict information from the public. I've not heard an official statement from anyone in Tarrant county concerning their decision to encrypt; however, I just heard someone asking the Mayor of Danbury, CT where the school shooting occurred today, "can you confirm whether the people taken to the hospital were adults or children?" He stated, "you know I can't tell you that due to HIPPA laws." When I tuned in to this feed, I heard encryption. Interesting comparison.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by Ensnared

As I previously stated, some emergency responders use the excuse of HIPPA laws to justify encryption and/or restrict information from the public. I've not heard an official statement from anyone in Tarrant county concerning their decision to encrypt; however, I just heard someone asking the Mayor of Danbury, CT where the school shooting occurred today, "can you confirm whether the people taken to the hospital were adults or children?" He stated, "you know I can't tell you that due to HIPPA laws." When I tuned in to this feed, I heard encryption. Interesting comparison.

I'd think more of your hearing encryption on the Danbury feed might have something to do with the release of the radio traffic by...Radioreference?

Let's be real: encryption is being rolled out with new systems because it's cheap (especially in the case of ADP on Astro 25 systems) and more and more agencies aren't wild about the streaming and archiving of radio traffic. The audience is much wider- and more ears aren't always welcome.

FW is doing what many are: they don't want their business all over the Internet and blasting out of everyone's cellphone. I can't say I blame them. I really wish they would come out and just say that. Maybe some people will wake up and then get the message that streaming other people's radio traffic without permission and profiting off it is killing the scanner hobby, one encrypted channel/talkgroup at a time.

[Ensnared]

Originally Posted by MTS2000des

I'd think more of your hearing encryption on the Danbury feed might have something to do with the release of the radio traffic by...Radioreference?

Let's be real: encryption is being rolled out with new systems because it's cheap (especially in the case of ADP on Astro 25 systems) and more and more agencies aren't wild about the streaming and archiving of radio traffic. The audience is much wider- and more ears aren't always welcome.

FW is doing what many are: they don't want their business all over the Internet and blasting out of everyone's cellphone. I can't say I blame them. I really wish they would come out and just say that. Maybe some people will wake up and then get the message that streaming other people's radio traffic without permission and profiting off it is killing the scanner hobby, one encrypted channel/talkgroup at a time.

Yes, I would agree with you, 100%. I think the HIPPA reason is pure B.S. The ease of access provided by Smart Phones seems to be one of the main reasons. I can recall several news story about people interfering with LE response. I think I saw several You Tube videos of such.

[ASTRO2001]

I have been on a EMS and FD since 1987 and when we call the ER for a report on a PT we call on a CELL PHONE you may have heard of them. You may thing I am jack@#$@ but get real with HIPPA. We are still analog NO encryption at all and we use Motorola APX7000 and APX 7500 radios. HIPPA offical came to our department to talk to us about a other matter and later we told him what we do when we give PT reports to ER and we also said we sometime is other resons have to do it over the radio. He said thats fine as long as a Name, DOB, SSN don't go over the radio. They never told us to go encrypted 110% of the time. I fed up with people who think it is HAPPA is the cause of it. So HIPPA this and that stop it. Also who ever started this HIPPA thing ask me one question. How is small EMS Department with Very little money to get Encrypted radio. I know a lots of EMS services that still use CDM1225 for there radios. They even tryed Gov. grants and other grants and they were DENIED. Because they were DENIED is money they had and one service even still use a Farm Barn to keep there Ambulance because they could not pay for a real building. So have can they get $5,000 radios


So what will the small EMS and others Department do????

[M_T]

Does anyone know if Tarrant County S.O. will switch over to this new P25 system and if they do, will they be encrypted or be in the clear?

[Ensnared]

Originally Posted by ASTRO2001

I have been on a EMS and FD since 1987 and when we call the ER for a report on a PT we call on a CELL PHONE you may have heard of them. You may thing I am jack@#$@ but get real with HIPPA. We are still analog NO encryption at all and we use Motorola APX7000 and APX 7500 radios. HIPPA offical came to our department to talk to us about a other matter and later we told him what we do when we give PT reports to ER and we also said we sometime is other resons have to do it over the radio. He said thats fine as long as a Name, DOB, SSN don't go over the radio. They never told us to go encrypted 110% of the time. I fed up with people who think it is HAPPA is the cause of it. So HIPPA this and that stop it. Also who ever started this HIPPA thing ask me one question. How is small EMS Department with Very little money to get Encrypted radio. I know a lots of EMS services that still use CDM1225 for there radios. They even tryed Gov. grants and other grants and they were DENIED. Because they were DENIED is money they had and one service even still use a Farm Barn to keep there Ambulance because they could not pay for a real building. So have can they get $5,000 radios


So what will the small EMS and others Department do????

As I stated in post #34, an official made a statement at a news conference about being unable to release information regarding HIPPA laws. As I have previously stated, I've heard several individuals in the Williamson county near Austin, Texas stating this was the reason for encrypting EMS/Fire; however, I've never heard any officials making this claim.

For example, If you will look at the following TSYS in the Austin area, most all Fire/EMS TG's are fully encrypted in Williamson county. I was surprised to find TG 1261 being encrypted for EMS air dispatch. http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2

I have a friend who works in risk management for one of the area hospitals in Austin. When I asked about the relationship between HIPPA laws & encryption, he said the same thing, they don't use names, DOB's or identifying information over the radio. Therefore, they don't use encryption. Simple as that.

In my opinion, HIPPA is not the reason for the increased use of encryption across the country. Williamson county, like Fort Worth, might be going overboard with this function for reasons unknown. In my opinion, some might have something to hide from the public.

[MaxTracker]

I can see encrypting Med reports ... Liability ... In the event a paramedic screws up. I can accept encryption on Fire Investigation channels ... Do Arsonists really need to hear Arson Investigators discuss a case.

I fully agree with Police in Encrypting Narcotics, Tactical, Surveillance and other special operations channels.

But I just don't get encrypting Patrol and Traffic channels as these are used by the public to avoid are's and be better informed about certain activity. But on the flipside, when FWPD roll up on a shooting in Stop-6 and they guy on the ground bleeding has a digital scanner in his hand programmed properly to FWPD the War on crime takes a new turn.

FWPD surely isn't worried about the very few citizens who would monitor for informational purposed but i'd bet are more concerned with the greater number of Criminals scanning them. The less the community hears the safer the Police are and better at Enforcement.

In this day and age with Terrorism, Organized crime, Gangs, Out of Control narcotic sales, campus shootings, campus drug operations (TCU) and the liability risks they have to have some radio security.

I thought somewhere there was a Department of Homeland Security rule that stated radio purchased with DHS grant money could not use fulltime encryption? I dunno, but I still think Patrol/Dispatch, Traffic, COPS and some Special event channels should be in the clear.