San Antonio EDACS system and the press

[blantonl]

The EN has published two articles in the past few days highlighting issues that have come to light with the new EDACS system.

Most of the things that we have discussed are sounding pretty familiar in the articles.

1. Fire Department Comms in digital are causing safety issues on the fireground.

2. Surrounding agencies are locked out and can't monitor the system to keep track of possible incidents coming into their jurisdictions. Instead, they must purchase $3500 radios and be "authorized" by the City/County instead of potentially purchasing a $300 scanner to accomplish the same function -- in limited fashion no-less.

One item not discussed is the fact that the City and County decided to purchase a NON apco-25 compliant system, meaning, the digital standard that the Association of Public Safety Communications Officials approved for use on digital communications systems is not supported. Our neighbors to the north (Austin) decided to implement a P25 system, which means that
- they aren't locked into a specific vendors for end-user equipment
- the implemented an open standard supported and endorsed by APCO
- interoperability is a "little" easier considering the pervasiveness of the P25 standard.

And to think they worked so hard to convince the attorney general that records should be kept private on the system.

You make the call:

Radio change cuts off some entities
Web Posted: 05/05/2004 12:00 AM CDT

Vianna Davila
San Antonio Express News

What started out as a routine traffic stop in Castle Hills a few weeks ago turned into a chase for an armed robbery suspect.

The officer had no radio communication with the San Antonio Police Department, so he didn't know the driver was the same man sought in an earlier incident on the parking lot of a nearby San Antonio pool hall.

That's because since March, the Castle Hills Police Department and SAPD have been talking on completely different radio systems.

"It's just two absolutely separate frequencies, so we can't get to them and they can't get to us," said Castle Hills Police Chief Donny Davis.

Last month, SAPD and the Bexar County Sheriff's Department revamped their entire communication system and switched to a state-of-the-art, $58 million digital communication network. The system eliminates dead spots and provides more diversity in communication capabilities within agencies and between agencies, said SAPD Capt. William Smith.

The philosophy behind the new system boils down to a concept called interoperability — the ability of public safety personnel to communicate by radio with staff from other agencies on demand and in real time.

But in its initial phases, the communication switchover in San Antonio also has led to some agency disconnection.

Castle Hills police can communicate on it only if they use compatible radios that SAPD programs for them.

Had the Castle Hills officer heard about the robbery over the radio, Davis said the situation would have had a different outcome.

"Instead of a policeman waiting with a smile, asking for your driver's license and a proof of insurance, he would have had a gun in your face," Davis said.

At a recent fight in the Edgewood School District, the response time of SAPD officers to assist district police was delayed because the call for backup had to go through a phone operator.

"It leaves us blind to other problems in the district," said Edgewood Police Chief Charlie Peña.

The only way to get back in the loop, Davis and Peña said, was to buy the same kind of radios SAPD uses.

But even if entities purchase the appropriate radios, they can't immediately program them and hook into the new system.

"The system does not have infinite capacity," Smith said, adding that a policy detailing who can tap into the system and when they can do it is being developed.

Smith said any agencies that want access to the system most likely will get it after applying for a contract with the chief of police and the joint operations committee, a city and county-run policy board for the communication system. Smith said that memorandum of understanding may be ready in the near future.

"Our primary commodity on this project has been coverage, countywide coverage. That's what we paid all these millions of dollars for," Smith said.

The city of Live Oak solved the problem by creating its own communication system, independent of the San Antonio network. It went into effect Jan. 20, 2003.

City leaders decided it was more cost-effective to purchase a new system instead of constantly replacing outdated equipment, Assistant Chief of Police Dan Pew said.

"We were hearing them better in Mexico than we were our own officers out on the street," he noted.

The system is large enough to cover the entire Metrocom area. Live Oak also dispatches for Converse, Selma and the Judson School District. Universal City also plans to connect to the system.

Alamo Heights will put up a second communications tower that will hook into the Live Oak system, but they will dispatch for themselves.

"It's very important for all of us to be on the same song sheet," Pew said.

Getting communication systems on the same page can be expensive, officials say. Radios cost about $3,200 each.

The Castle Hills City Council approved the purchase of three radios for its police force. Balcones Heights has paid for four radios through law enforcement development block grants. Helotes recently received word that it will get a grant to buy at least one.

But the price tag is hefty for agencies like the San Antonio School District police force that need to replace an entire system, said Jeff Ward, assistant chief of the SASD Police Department.

Ward said the district's radio system is so old that sometimes officers can't transmit inside the schools. Right now, he's not sure how the district will be able to afford a new system.

The recent radio disconnection is a concern for his staff because any incidents around the schools can directly affect the students.

"It's very important in a lot of regards because we frequently have situations that occur around the schools that if we're not aware of, we can't take the proper precautions," Ward said.

Without the immediate radio communication, calls for backup or alerts go from dispatcher to dispatcher and out to officers. Contact does not go from officer to officer.

Helotes Police Chief Fritz Bohne said only a couple of car chases from San Antonio have come through his city in the past three years, but that doesn't make communication with SAPD any less vital.

"We're the last city on the outskirts (of San Antonio) going out on Bandera Road. If we don't get whoever they're after stopped, it's a good chance the person's going to get away," Bohne said.

All of these entities still have contact with SAPD through the mobile data terminal, laptops in each squad car with a built-in messaging system and an information database that allows officers to run suspect cross-checks.

And police chiefs in the various suburban cities agree that San Antonio still is working out the kinks of a very green system.

"We certainly don't want to get in anybody's way," said Balcones Heights Police Chief Kenneth Menn. "Once they're up and running, we'll take it from there."

It's all a matter of working together and communicating well, he said.

"Crime doesn't stop at a city limits," he said. "If someone's doing something, it goes everywhere."

and

Firefighters' radios a problem
Web Posted: 05/10/2004 12:00 AM CDT

Mary Moreno
Express-News Staff Writer

The planning and testing took 10 years and the project was delayed by two years, but representatives from the firefighters' union say a new $47 million digital radio system is fraught with problems that pose a safety risk.

For nearly four months, San Antonio's police and fire departments and the Bexar County Sheriff's Department have shared the system that was touted for its clarity, range and security.

However, firefighters have complained about intrusive feedback when several radios are used near each other, said Christopher Steele, president of the San Antonio Professional Firefighters Association. Also, the transmissions are muffled at times.

Steele said the interruptions may mean firefighters won't hear an order to evacuate a burning building, or that paramedics rushing to a shooting could miss a dispatcher's warning that the shooter is still there.

"If they don't hear and understand that properly, it could cost them their lives," said Steele, who added that the problems were first spotted during testing.

Steele said the union has told the department about the concerns and is giving it time to correct problems. But, Steele said, if the situation isn't remedied quickly, he would go to the City Council and the public for help.

"I'm not sure how they're going to address it," Steele said. "We don't want to push the issue too much. We want to give them that opportunity."

The president of the police union said officers have reported a few problems, but he is confident they will be dealt with.

Officers have said the dispatchers are difficult to understand at times, said Teddy Stewart, president of the San Antonio Police Officers Association. Stewart has been told an adjustment of the dispatchers' controls should fix that problem.

"Unfortunately, some of the bugs that they should have known about ahead of time they didn't," Stewart said.

Organizers of the radio project said the problems experienced by police and firefighters are minor wrinkles that were expected, given the complexity and magnitude of the project, which employs nearly 3,500 radios. The problems have either been fixed or will be soon.

The safety of firefighters and police officers is not being compromised, they said.

Assistant Fire Chief Alan Boozikee said the feedback is a result of the sensitivity of the radios, and he has advised firefighters that it can be eliminated by talking into microphones on their shoulders. Those microphones have a noise-canceling feature and are not as sensitive as a hand-held model.

"The echoing is a user problem," Boozikee said.

Police Capt. William Smith said the feedback can be reduced by lowering the volume.

As for the muffled transmissions, Boozikee said a design problem has allowed some of the shoulder microphones used by firefighters to collect water at emergency scenes. The company that manufactures the microphones has redesigned them and is replacing them at no cost to the department.

The new shoulder microphones can be dunked in water and still work perfectly, Boozikee said.

All firefighters should have the new shoulder microphones by this week.

The older-design microphones, which are rain-resistant, will be passed on to the Police Department.

Another common problem is defective batteries, which are being replaced by the manufacturer at no cost, Smith and Boozikee said.

Some batteries were found to have a defective component. Though not all the batteries malfunctioned, all are being replaced because "we're not taking any chances," Smith said.

[mr_hankey]

what?!?

of COURSE their radios are APCO-25 compliant - on the conventional talkarounds...

there ARE conventional talkarounds programmed, right?

seriously, i remember seeing specs on the MA/COM website talking about how the PV radios were APCO-25 compliant -in conventional mode-

does that apply to San Antonio's system?

[blantonl]

I think it's an extra feature, needed to be flashed.

I highly doubt San Antonio is using it on conventional talkaround.

I do not think it applies to San Antonio's system

[Sanscanman]

Chief Steel was on KTSA yesterday at the beginning of Ricky Ware's show for about ten minutes, discussing the problem.

[Thayne]

I just priced a MA/Com P7100 series radio like I would want--
(List prices; but just try to cut a deal)

Radio =$2000
ProVoice =1795
P-25 conventional=850
800/syst-groups =200
Antenna = 29
Battery =130
Desktop charger = 115

Total =$5119.00

That should help pay for the next Tyco chairman's wifes Party!!!

Our bulls are buying these now,--yippee

[LarryN]

Originally Posted by Thayne

I
Radio =$2000
ProVoice =1795
P-25 conventional=850
800/syst-groups =200
Antenna = 29
Battery =130
Desktop charger = 115

Total =$5119.00

But being able to monitor digital systems.........PRICELESS

[greenthumb]

I can almost bet that customers are not paying the $5100 price tag - customers that purchase systems generally pay a good percentage less for radios, accessories, and parts than do the general public. I've seen the general public pay list price on numerous occasions, and if it's bought through a shop, it will be list price + an average of 12%! Yikees!

[mareja]

Originally Posted by greenthumb

I can almost bet that customers are not paying the $5100 price tag - customers that purchase systems generally pay a good percentage less for radios, accessories, and parts than do the general public. I've seen the general public in San Antonio Texas, pay list price on numerous occasions, and if it's bought through a shop, it will be list price + an average of 12%! Yikees!

Who can afford this at times like these?
I sure wish I could but we all need to hope for the best!
Cheers,
Mare

[alottabull]

OT going to a new thread.