158.9400 Interference

[BlueDevil]

It seems like the 158.9400 frequency is public safety specific at least in the US. At least the way I understand it and looking at the licensees they are all public safety agencies. This mean if there was a taxi service or some similar business or organization they would be operating outside of their license or without a license which either way is even harder to track down.


Cheers,

Brandon

 

[kayn1n32008]

There are no pl tones or data on those lad freqs. In canada...

Also, ideas are not crap...

You are correct, but posting factually wrong information IS crap.

I have come across basic 10 users that use PL. I have even heard DMR being used on LAD 1 in Alberta.

 

[SkyPager]

What is the "Interference" you are complaining of
Doing an FCC ULS search is often a good place to start. I did a 50 mile search around State Line, Wa

ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WNHR372 - KOOTENAI, COUNTY OF

As can be seen in this result here is a station on Mica Peak, which is licensed to Kootenai County.

 

[mikewazowski]

Threads merged.

 

[chpalmer]

It seems like the 158.9400 frequency is public safety specific at least in the US. At least the way I understand it and looking at the licensees they are all public safety agencies. This mean if there was a taxi service or some similar business or organization they would be operating outside of their license or without a license which either way is even harder to track down.

In Oregon there are several Irrigation districts using it. I mention that because it sounds like the same telemetry equipment that showed up on my L.E. input a couple years back to me.

Of interest are these guys- ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WQDZ410 - OCHOCO IRRIGATION DISTRICT as their license was granted in October. But it is pretty far away. I assume this is a new problem?

If you don't have a directional antenna to use try placing the receiver up next to your stomach and turn around 360degrees and see which direction the signal appears to be the strongest.


Nice resort there!


Edit- after playing with my propagation software Id rule out Idaho and Oregon and focus about 100 degrees around N NW of the site first.

 

[BlueDevil]

I have been trying to make contact with agencies and organizations who share this same frequency as a part of their license. I haven't made contact with the Ochoco Irrigation District. This interference did show up just this year. I do have a direction Yagi that I can take up with me the next time I go to up to the mountain. I am not able to get up there as much as I like.

I have made contact with Kootenai County in Idaho. The only use this frequency during disasters or large scale emergency incidents.

Our best point of view is to the NW N NE however on some of the other frequencies that we scan we pick up all sorts of traffic some other areas outside of those directions.

 

[cmdrwill]

Frequency Coordination? Some BIG joke!

 

[BlueDevil]

UPDATE: I think I have found a lead. Kootenai County in Northern Idaho has an FCC License ( ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WNHR372 - KOOTENAI, COUNTY OF ) for the same frequency (158.9400). They are using the frequency as a repeater output and we are using it as a repeater input. They use this frequency as apart of their Public Works Communication System and utilize the Kenwood Fleetsync system on this frequency to monitor their vehicles. I have been in contact with them and they have graciously enough offered to voluntarily check their equipment to confirm it is operating within their license. They said that there have not been any recent changes to their equipment, programming, or license so they are not sure why the interference is occurring all of a sudden. So far they seem to be very professional and great to work with regarding this issue.

Their license shows that they have a repeater and base station operating on this frequency. Their base station is slightly closer to our location and I believe is at a higher elevation and it is licensed for a Maximum ERP of 600. The repeater they use is at a lower elevation and is only licensed for a Maximum ERP of 24. According to Google Earth the base station and repeater are just under 120miles away from our repeater. I have attached a Google Earth Picture and linked a XML file ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/ywuvv3v6dgzn8av/Repeater Interference.kmz?dl=0 ) for those who are interested.

I am still looking into other possible sources but this sounds like a pretty hot lead. Hopefully we can continue to work together to come to some sort of peaceful resolution. Thanks for everyone's help, time, and advice.

 

[kayn1n32008]

An ERP of 600w????? Wtf? A bit excessive?

 

[NDRADIONUT]

Their license is only for nfm not any digital modes...

 

[BlueDevil]

A Maximum ERP of 600 does seem excessive to me, especially at an elevation of 5200ft. However I guess they were able to get the license for it.

I also noticed that there license is for Narrowband only emissions. Is Motorola MDC1200 and Kenwood Fleetsync considered a digital operating format?

 

[cmdrwill]

A Maximum ERP of 600 does seem excessive to me, especially at an elevation of 5200ft. However I guess they were able to get the license for it.

I also noticed that there license is for Narrowband only emissions. Is Motorola MDC1200 and Kenwood Fleetsync considered a digital operating format?

So much for so-called Frequency Coordination.

MDC is analog in audio band tones. So not a 'digital operating format'. I think Fleetsync is much the same.

 

[BlueDevil]

Well I finally found the source of the interference. It is the repeater operated by Kootenai County in Post Falls, ID (ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WNHR372 - KOOTENAI, COUNTY OF). After making contact with them they volunteered to check on their equipment. I received work yesterday that there did check on their equipment and found no abnormalities. Their equipment was operating normally and was within the parameters of their license. They advised that they are using a CTCSS Tone of 179.9Hz which is the same tone that we are picking up on the interfering signal at our location.

They were kind enough to reduce the transmit power on their repeater from 20watts (ERP of 15) down to 10watts (ERP to 7.5) to see if this made any difference with the level or severity of the interference we were experiencing. Today was our first day of operation since they made the changes to their system. There was a noticeable change in the amount of interference that we were experiencing however the interference was still very obvious and effecting our system in a negative way. I imagine they will want to return their repeater to it's licensed operating power in the near future. Even with the reduced power output it did not make that significant of a difference for us.

Now that it appear that I have identified the source of the interference what do I do next? We both have licenses to operate on this frequency. We are both operating our systems within the parameters of our license. Neither one of our agencies has made any changes to programming, hardware, or licenses recently. We have both been operating our systems without issue for the past several years. We have been coexisting without problem up until now. I still cannot figure out why now that things have all of a sudden changed.

Do anyone have any advise or suggestions on what the next step should be? If possible I would much rather prefer to come to some sort of peaceful and cheap resolution to this problem.

 

[NDRADIONUT]

Traditionally 158.9400 was always a repeater input freq.... Prob. No one cares about that anymore... The one with the newer license should move to a different freq ??? My .02

 

[BlueDevil]

That would be one way of doing it.

 

[kayn1n32008]

Do anyone have any advise or suggestions on what the next step should be? If possible I would much rather prefer to come to some sort of peaceful and cheap resolution to this problem.

Swap your Transmit and Receive frequencies. Likely your subscribers will not hear the other repeater, based on what I saw in your videos.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[im800mhz]

Well I finally found the source of the interference. It is the repeater operated by Kootenai County in Post Falls, ID (ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WNHR372 - KOOTENAI, COUNTY OF). After making contact with them they volunteered to check on their equipment. I received work yesterday that there did check on their equipment and found no abnormalities. Their equipment was operating normally and was within the parameters of their license. They advised that they are using a CTCSS Tone of 179.9Hz which is the same tone that we are picking up on the interfering signal at our location.

They were kind enough to reduce the transmit power on their repeater from 20watts (ERP of 15) down to 10watts (ERP to 7.5) to see if this made any difference with the level or severity of the interference we were experiencing. Today was our first day of operation since they made the changes to their system. There was a noticeable change in the amount of interference that we were experiencing however the interference was still very obvious and effecting our system in a negative way. I imagine they will want to return their repeater to it's licensed operating power in the near future. Even with the reduced power output it did not make that significant of a difference for us.

Now that it appear that I have identified the source of the interference what do I do next? We both have licenses to operate on this frequency. We are both operating our systems within the parameters of our license. Neither one of our agencies has made any changes to programming, hardware, or licenses recently. We have both been operating our systems without issue for the past several years. We have been coexisting without problem up until now. I still cannot figure out why now that things have all of a sudden changed.

Do anyone have any advise or suggestions on what the next step should be? If possible I would much rather prefer to come to some sort of peaceful and cheap resolution to this problem.

Is this the site that is 7 miles off?

 

[BlueDevil]

We already have know interference from a stronger signal/station on our current transmit frequency. If we swapped we would have the same problem we have now only about 100x worse


Cheers,

Brandon

 

[kayn1n32008]

Threaten frequency 'coordinators' with legal action, unless they find a new pair, at their cost.

 

[Vizwar]

I don't have much experience with FCC license classifications, but unless you have an exclusive class license for a frequency, doesn't each user's repeater have to 'listen' before transmitting to avoid exactly this?