BCD436HP/BCD536HP: Question about scanning items not known in database

[Gary985112]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to scanning and I just had a question for the BCD436Hp Scanner. Any help would be appreciated on my journey to learn this stuff. Ha!

Ok, so I am interested in exploring and discovering systems that are not in the database. I am having trouble telling if a system is "trunked" or not. What would be the best way to discover control channels that are not known in the database? And then, is there a way to tell that it is a control channel?

I just want to be able to scan down a control channel, and then save it as a "system", and then scan that system for TGIDS that are not known to explore the system. Is this possible and if so what is the easiest way to do this?

Thanks!

 

[nessnet]

Isn't most, if not everything with an FCC license in RR already?
Don't you have to have a license in order to have a system/site(s) broadcasting a control channel?
I suppose brand new stuff may be missing....

I'm not trying to be discouraging here. I'm just not sure if there is that much undocumented trunking.
There are certainly trunking systems that don't have their talkgroups documented. And RR relays on us for the information.

Here is what you are looking for: If you want to explore, do ID searching on control channels. Then, any (non-encrypted) traffic will pop up.

 

[jonwienke]

Fed agencies fall under NTIA rather than the FCC, and are not required to publish their frequencies. So there is some value to spectrum exploration if that category is of interest to you.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Isn't most, if not everything with an FCC license in RR already?

No, far from it. I identify and submit unidentified licensees from my area to the db on a regular basis

 

[nessnet]

K, stand corrected - forgot the Feds....
So much of the Feds is encrypted, that I basically don't even scan them here. They are all in the radio, I just don't usually bother.

There is an exception out here - JWIN, which is Federal.
But, the WSP made a pact with them (FBI), and they use it (have a bunch of talkgroups on it), in addition to their own 700 in certain Districts and also still use the old conventional, now P25.

Anyway, thanks for the reality check.

 

[Gary985112]

Isn't most, if not everything with an FCC license in RR already?
Don't you have to have a license in order to have a system/site(s) broadcasting a control channel?
I suppose brand new stuff may be missing....

I'm not trying to be discouraging here. I'm just not sure if there is that much undocumented trunking.
There are certainly trunking systems that don't have their talkgroups documented. And RR relays on us for the information.

Here is what you are looking for: If you want to explore, do ID searching on control channels. Then, any (non-encrypted) traffic will pop up.

No problem at all I appreciate the input. I'm interested in ID searching. What would you recommend is the best way to do that? Do I manually input a control channel and then turn ID searching on? Or do I just go to an existing system in the database, save it to favorites, and turn ID searching on? I was just wondering how exactly this works. Does that find talkgroups that dont exist in the database?

 

[Gary985112]

No, far from it. I identify and submit unidentified licensees from my area to the db on a regular basis

Oh that is awesome that is what I want to get into really bad. It's sort of why I started scanning. Do you have any tips on how to get started with that on the bcd436hp? I'm reading the easy to follow manual that you submitted to me. I appreciate it. I feel like I am understanding a lot more since I just got the scanner a few days ago. Is there a way during discovery to make the bcd436hp stop on a control channel? Or what would you recommend for finding control channels? And then once you find a control channel, do you just save the system with only the control channel and then run trunked discovery on it? Or do you just listen to the system and turn ID search on? Thanks again for your time and help.

 

[Gary985112]

Fed agencies fall under NTIA rather than the FCC, and are not required to publish their frequencies. So there is some value to spectrum exploration if that category is of interest to you.

Oh awesome yeah I am brand new and totally interested in this spectrum exploration. What's the best way to accomplish this on bcd436hp? How do you scan down new control channels? Any ideas or tips on this? Then, once you find one, how do you find tgids? Do you just save it and turn ID search on?

 

[ChrisABQ]

The city of Santa Fe, New Mexico managed to setup and test a brand new P25 phase 1 system without anyone realizing it. The only way locals found out about it is when the old system went silent. It took about a day to track down the new TG's once it was found. The DB is updated by locals into the hobby. Thanks Gary for being passionate about wanting to help find these new systems.

 

[Gary985112]

The city of Santa Fe, New Mexico managed to setup and test a brand new P25 phase 1 system without anyone realizing it. The only way locals found out about it is when the old system went silent. It took about a day to track down the new TG's once it was found. The DB is updated by locals into the hobby. Thanks Gary for being passionate about wanting to help find these new systems.

Oh well that is really interesting!! I just got my very first scanner a few days ago and I've been reading non-stop ever since to try and learn everything that I can. I purchased the scanner with the Intention to do exactly what you mentioned! It seems very exciting to me to find frequencies or systems that no one else knows about and then share them so that everyone can enjoy them. Do you have any tips on how to do this? I'm still sort of trying to find out the best way to locate control channels. And then once I locate a control channel, can I start using that channel to get tgids? Even if I don't have the alternate control channels? Any tips would be greatly appreciated but if you don't have time I will just keep reading and trying things out 🙂 thanks so much for your help and I definitely look forward to this hobby.

 

[ChrisABQ]

If you have a computer and a couple of SDR dongles ($25 ea) and some free software, you can find a lot of stuff. My city/county is updating to a new P25 Phase 2 system from an old Provoice system, so I'm able to identify new sites, control channels, alternate control channels, voice frequencies, tower locations and talk groups. It's quite an interesting time right now.

 

[nessnet]

If you have a computer and a couple of SDR dongles ($25 ea) and some free software, you can find a lot of stuff. My city/county is updating to a new P25 Phase 2 system from an old Provoice system, so I'm able to identify new sites, control channels, alternate control channels, voice frequencies, tower locations and talk groups. It's quite an interesting time right now.

I got my RTL-SDR last week, only to realize this (need 2 to trunk). In fact, I posted an ask to see if someone had a spare one, because when I went back to Amazon to order the 2nd, they were out of stock - don't know when they will be back.

 

[sonm10]

There are a couple ways

1) Use the search function (and/or conventional discovery) and search a range of frequencies. For example, you are searching for potential DMR or NXDN, search 450-470 with some potential users 150-160.
2) Search the FCC database here on RR for things of interest, and only scan those frequencies.

In my experience, Unidens have a hard differentiating digital from analog. There is a digital wait time thats supposed to help with that, but I find it doesn't help at all. What I do is duplicate each frequency and set one for digital and the other to analog.

Using logging software such as Proscan or Butel's ArcPro also helps. Pay attention to the system type and tone or digital code. Frequencies with the same system type and digital code potentially might be part of a trunked system. Compare those frequencies to the FCC license data to confirm.

Also keep in mind, when searching the FCC, each entity might have several FRNs, licenses, sites (locations), frequencies (used or unused), and emission codes (digital type).

Also, if there is a loud buzzing on analog, it most likely is digital. Different types of digital each have their own unique 'buzz', which is another possible way to identify.

 

[ecps92]

a. The RR DB is actual [Over-the-Air] heard confirmations of a frequency in use
with the PL/DPL/NAC/Color/Ran submitted - none of which the FCC has or wants.
b. Only by users listening and then reporting [DB submission] is the DB compiled

Many hours / weeks / months are spent attempting to ID users of Commercial Radio [Rental] systems
as there is no FCC DB on who uses PL/DPL

Not all worlds revolve around identification on TG's on systems

Isn't most, if not everything with an FCC license in RR already?
Don't you have to have a license in order to have a system/site(s) broadcasting a control channel?
I suppose brand new stuff may be missing....

I'm not trying to be discouraging here. I'm just not sure if there is that much undocumented trunking.
There are certainly trunking systems that don't have their talkgroups documented. And RR relays on us for the information.

Here is what you are looking for: If you want to explore, do ID searching on control channels. Then, any (non-encrypted) traffic will pop up.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Many hours / weeks / months are spent attempting to ID users of Commercial Radio [Rental] systems
as there is no FCC DB on who uses PL/DPL

Oh these are the most fun of all to try and identify. Users talking too loudly or mumbling into their portables with not much more than "DO YOU COPY?" or "[name] COME IN!" I've spent years trying to pinpoint some of these

 

[ecps92]

And thanks to 411.com and reverse # look ups, when they give out a phone #, it is easy

Keep up the hunt

Oh these are the most fun of all to try and identify. Users talking too loudly or mumbling into their portables with not much more than "DO YOU COPY?" or "[name] COME IN!" I've spent years trying to pinpoint some of these

 

[Gary985112]

There are a couple ways

1) Use the search function (and/or conventional discovery) and search a range of frequencies. For example, you are searching for potential DMR or NXDN, search 450-470 with some potential users 150-160.
2) Search the FCC database here on RR for things of interest, and only scan those frequencies.

In my experience, Unidens have a hard differentiating digital from analog. There is a digital wait time thats supposed to help with that, but I find it doesn't help at all. What I do is duplicate each frequency and set one for digital and the other to analog.

Using logging software such as Proscan or Butel's ArcPro also helps. Pay attention to the system type and tone or digital code. Frequencies with the same system type and digital code potentially might be part of a trunked system. Compare those frequencies to the FCC license data to confirm.

Also keep in mind, when searching the FCC, each entity might have several FRNs, licenses, sites (locations), frequencies (used or unused), and emission codes (digital type).

Also, if there is a loud buzzing on analog, it most likely is digital. Different types of digital each have their own unique 'buzz', which is another possible way to identify.

Ah ok thanks for the help. What do you mean you duplicate each frequency and set one for digital and other to analog? How do you go about doing this? Is this inside of a "site" you mean where you enter the frequencies? Thanks for the help.

 

[sonm10]

Ah ok thanks for the help. What do you mean you duplicate each frequency and set one for digital and other to analog? How do you go about doing this? Is this inside of a "site" you mean where you enter the frequencies? Thanks for the help.

I set it all up using Proscan software and is a conventional system. Most frequencies I get from the FCC, so it may or may not be digital. You could just do each frequency and set the audio to all, but I find this doesn't work much.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

And thanks to 411.com and reverse # look ups, when they give out a phone #, it is easy

Keep up the hunt

IF they give out a phone #

 

[Davthacker]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to scanning and I just had a question for the BCD436Hp Scanner. Any help would be appreciated on my journey to learn this stuff. Ha!

Ok, so I am interested in exploring and discovering systems that are not in the database. I am having trouble telling if a system is "trunked" or not. What would be the best way to discover control channels that are not known in the database? And then, is there a way to tell that it is a control channel?

I just want to be able to scan down a control channel, and then save it as a "system", and then scan that system for TGIDS that are not known to explore the system. Is this possible and if so what is the easiest way to do this?

Thanks!

Hey I know this is an older thread but I have the same scanner and am exactly in the same spot you were in when you made this thread. I'm looking for the same answers and not having any luck. Actually I made an account here today just to respond!

Did you ever get any guidance or advice about scanning for unknown control channels and building a database of talk groups? You mentioned two possible ways of going about it but i didn't see a good answer to it... Anyways I know you might have moved on from this but if not any advice would be awesome!