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I need some basic help with NATS

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W4hlk

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At great risk of condemnation and ridicule, I need to find some instruction in Astro25 to set up a Non-affiliated scan of a trunking system. I have viewed the sticky post here and the rather rambunctious threads on the subject on this site. Some background first. I'm a 35 year HAM (W4HLK) and have a great deal of radio experience. I'm not looking for someone to just tell me how, or to do it for me, where is the lesson in that? I need help to understand how. I already use unitrunker on the PC and can hear all I want. I want to know how to program the 5000 for the sake of just knowing how to do it. It's been 2 weeks with this XTS5000 and I've gone nowhere. I have watched several sketchy videos on YouTube and read a multitude of articles on the subject. I feel like it should be working from what I've seen and learned. I have my key for my site, put in my controls. Made a scan list beyond CH16. Also, set up my TG in hex and they show up where they should and list by there name on the scan list. But still nothing. I am starting to think the code plug that came in the radio may have some settings off that I just don't realize. Since there is no way to factory reset the code plug I must assume the over all settings are ok but perhaps not . I am about to just go outside and scream. I have never run into anything as non intuitive as Astro25 in my life.

Thanks guys, Heather.
 

W4hlk

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Buy a unication and sell the radio.
It's looking like that's going to be the way to go to get portable. Riding around with a laptop on the seat and a few SDRs hanging out is not convenient.
 

thedanderzone

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I’ve used the NAS method before when I had an XTS5000, but it was awhile ago. I don’t remember much about how I had it set up, but it worked. Unfortunately, there will probably be fewer and fewer people willing to help out with the abundance of devices popping up that will scan pretty well without the risk that NAS poses. If you want someone to skim your codeplug for obvious errors, I’d be happy to take a look. Just shoot me a PM.

The Unication G5 is a great device, though a bit more expensive than the 5000. The SDS100 from Uniden seems to work pretty well also. I recently just started playing with SDRs and they’re awesome, but yes, not very convenient in a car!

Now I use a Harris XG-100P for passively scanning systems. Works pretty well, but my gosh is the RPM quite different than Motorola. Cool radio for what it is though, and let’s me scan a lot of conventional channels at once too, which I love for my local amateur repeaters mixed in with my local public safety repeaters.
 

MTS2000des

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The advice regarding the Unication is solid. From the standpoint of someone who runs a public safety radio system, we cringe when we see these threads. While NAS can be done, it takes a certain technical prowess. And at the end of the day, one has a legacy radio that can scan only 16 talk groups per system, and only on one system at a time (XTS/XTL).
The Unication is straightforward, does TDMA (something the XTS/XTL will never be capable of), is supported by the vendor, has just as good RF performance as a bonafide subscriber, with ZERO risk of any programming error that could piss off a system manager or worse yet get one in handcuffs with life changing consequences.
I'd vote for an SDS series too, though the Unication is the same "professional grade" tool (versus consumer grade hobby radio) but also priced accordingly.
 

W4hlk

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I agree. My goal was to have a portable means to listen to 2 services I'm involved with. I purchased the radio thinking it would be a fairly straightforward task as any DMR system I have programmed. While I have spent over 60 hrs trying to get it to just hear just 1 talk group with one personality in one system with 1 scan list. I have been able to do nothing. I've thrown my hands up in absolute disgust. Either I have become stupid or I'm just missing something so simple and I don't realize it. I truly think some simple peripheral setting is off.
 

natedawg1604

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I would suggest creating an account at communications.support, they have a very comprehensive archive of NAS instructions. Moto Astro25 has a HUGE amount of settings, it takes a while to get familiar with them all. Beyond that, with NAS you are intentionally programming certain things in Astro25 "incorrectly", which can make it a bit more confusing. The built-in help tutorials in the CPS are pretty good. The most important thing is you must read and understand (and re-read) the appropriate instructions for NAS. I would print them out and go over them with a highlighter.

I'm guessing you're not interested in getting more radios, but I would second the earlier comment about Harris. I recently got a Harris XG-25M, and I love it. After using the XTS 5k for several years, IMO Harris is much better for NAS; the RPM software is easier to work with and you have a much higher talkgroup capacity. Also you can get M7300's right now for bargain basement prices.
 

KN4EHX

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To piggyback off Natedawg1604 - Harris is probably the way to go if you want a functional radio that is easy to NAS. The M7300 (XG-75M) audio is beautiful and as he said they are cheap. The XG-100P is also cool but the audio isn’t as good as the XTS you have. The benefit of it is full spectrum V/U/7-800.

Otherwise it is hard to beat a trunking scanner for ease of programming. I’ve not NAS with a Moto but it can be done.
 

W4hlk

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Thanks Nathaniel. I'm looking into it now. See I use unitrunker-2 on the PC with multiple SDR USB dongles on a 47 element long periodic. I can hear Birmingham Simulcast 53 miles away, it,'s 10 over S9. So just being able to listen is not so much the point as learning how to manipulate the radio. I was just unprepaird for such a complex learning curve over most every thing I have used. I'm pretty quick to learn and I'm sure if I could study a working CP I would begin to "get the picture". With all that said. The M7300 does look interesting and I'm always into a new radio. My only lament is when I die the Grands are going to hull most of mine and my Husbands radio collection to the dump without knowing how cool radio was. They all think is so last century LOL.
 

MTS2000des

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I agree. My goal was to have a portable means to listen to 2 services I'm involved with. I purchased the radio thinking it would be a fairly straightforward task as any DMR system I have programmed. While I have spent over 60 hrs trying to get it to just hear just 1 talk group with one personality in one system with 1 scan list. I have been able to do nothing. I've thrown my hands up in absolute disgust. Either I have become stupid or I'm just missing something so simple and I don't realize it. I truly think some simple peripheral setting is off.
You also have to take into account that the non-affiliate scan is a by product of a feature intended for authorized system users: talkgroup scan. The workaround folks are doing is to bypass the need for a legitimate individual ID and proper provisioning record in the authorized system(s) core to go with it. It wasn't intended to be "easy" and for "everyone". Not trying to sound harsh, but it's time for a dose of reality. P25 and DMR have nothing in common aside from vocoder technology licensed from DVSI. They were created by two totally different entities for entirely different intended uses. So throw out everything about DMR because none of it applies when working with P25 subscribers, especially in a trunked environment.

If one wants to monitor a P25 system, a true purpose built device such as the Unication, SDS scanners, or even the P25 RX are the way to fly. The P25 RX is one of the most affordable solutions that does not only all VHF, UHF, 700 and 800 bands, but P25 phase 1/2 and DMR now. The developer is US based, a small business, and VERY RESPONSIVE to the scanning community.
 

KN4EHX

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Thanks Nathaniel. I'm looking into it now. See I use unitrunker-2 on the PC with multiple SDR USB dongles on a 47 element long periodic. I can hear Birmingham Simulcast 53 miles away, it,'s 10 over S9. So just being able to listen is not so much the point as learning how to manipulate the radio. I was just unprepaird for such a complex learning curve over most every thing I have used. I'm pretty quick to learn and I'm sure if I could study a working CP I would begin to "get the picture". With all that said. The M7300 does look interesting and I'm always into a new radio. My only lament is when I die the Grands are going to hull most of mine and my Husbands radio collection to the dump without knowing how cool radio was. They all think is so last century LOL.
I completely understand! So as you previously mentioned there is some videos on YouTube that are a little sketch. There is a few that aren’t so sketch but you’ll have to learn from a different manufacture and and apply that knowledge over to Moto. As far as I am aware there isn’t a great repository on how to program trunking and I had to pester a lot of people to learn how to do it myself. So I completely understand your pain!

I’ll attach a YouTube link to a tutorial on programming trunking on a Bendix King radio. This one is ultra modern so you’ll learn a few things that aren’t applicable to the XTS but in general the same principles apply. I will say there is good and bad with both Harris and Motorola, but Harris is definitely easier to NAS and you don’t have to worry about someone bricking your radio. RR is a great source of knowledge and if you find someone in your local area who is a system admin they might be nice and give you some tips and tricks on how to do things so that if you do happen to affiliate they won’t totally destroy you. Of course if you post about using a radio to NAS you’re going to catch some flak.

Also you have a very neat QRZ page. You’re into a little bit of everything!

I’m still young and dumb and without children so in the event of my untimely demise I imagine my people won’t have a clue what all I’m sitting on either.
 

W4hlk

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Yes, I watched this a few times last night. Thought I followed him exactly but I'm missing something still. This is about where I gave up on my last try. LOL.
 

W4hlk

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Ok. Thank you all for your help. You know who you are. On the right track now.
And still looking into the M7300. Man that thing looks pretty amazing. So thanks for the. Tip on that too. 73's Heather......
 

KN4EHX

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eBay. Make sure you get one capable of Phase II. You’ll have trouble finding information on programming cables. I’ll save you a bit of searching. Plain serial cable with a usb converter. The XG-100P programming cable is much more expensive but it also works with the newer XL stuff. The 100P is a portable V/U/7-800 MHz radio so that might check all of your boxes.
 
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