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Best radio recommendation for hiking in the mountains? VX-6R?

icestorm81

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I had purchased BCA bc link™ two-way radio 2.0 from REI.

My primary purpose was to be able to talk to other team members while hiking. After a recent hiking trip in Colorado, i was not too impressed with the performance and started doing some search and came across HAM radios.

After doing some research, i have found the best available option that money can buy would be Yaesu VX-6R. I am mainly looking for 1) range 2) can be used in a rugged environment

Would there be a better radio out there which i should consider? Just want to make sure that I have looked at all the options.

I am new to this and would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks!
 
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Whiskey3JMC

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Welcome to the RR forums. Unless you're a licensed amateur radio operator I would steer clear of an amateur radio transceiver like the VX-6R as it is not suitable for FRS/GMRS use. You'll need an FRS/GMRS radio. FRS is free to use though you're limited to 2 watts line of site. You'll need to be licensed to utilize GMRS (higher TX outputs, ability to hit GMRS repeaters, etc)
 

mmckenna

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Welcome.

There's a lot of details you need to consider before purchasing any radio.

The #1 issue I see here is that you seem to be interested in purchasing an amateur (ham) radio, but talk about using FRS radios. You also posted this on the FRS/GMRS/MURS section.

The Yaesu radio, and just about any other ham radio on the market is design to be used ONLY on amateur radio frequencies. FRS and GMRS are not amateur radio frequencies.
The FCC requires type certification of radios used in almost all radio services -except- ham radio. FRS, GMRS And MURS radios require FCC Part 95 certification to be legal to use. The type certification ensures that the radio meets the requirements of the specific radio service it is intended for.

The Yaesu and other ham radios do NOT meet these requirements and do NOT have the necessary FCC type certification. They are not legal to use on FRS or GMRS (or any other radio service, except ham).

The ham radios will also not let you transmit on FRS/GMRS frequencies by design. You would be able to receive, but it won't let you transmit. You ~may~ hear some tell you that some radios can be modified to allow transmit on these bands. That violates the FCC rules, and doesn't resolve some of the other technical issues that would need to be addressed for it to work properly.

If all you need is FRS/GMRS, there are better radios on the market. A radio with a better antenna can help coverage a whole bunch.
If you need access to amateur radio systems, have an amateur radio license, and are looking for a suitable radio, you'd do better with a dedicated amateur radio.

Generally it comes down to figuring out exactly what you need and purchasing the correct radio. The Yaesu isn't the right one.

Give us some more details and we can help point you in the right direction.
 

icestorm81

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Welcome to the RR forums. Unless you're a licensed amateur radio operator I would steer clear of an amateur radio transceiver like the VX-6R as it is not suitable for FRS/GMRS use. You'll need an FRS/GMRS radio. FRS is free to use though you're limited to 2 watts line of site. You'll need to be licensed to utilize GMRS (higher TX outputs, ability to hit GMRS repeaters, etc)
Thanks.

Yes, i understand that i will need a license and did plan to take the "technician" level certification if I was to go ahead with a HAM radio. Based on what I have read, it requires about 10 hours of study and should not be difficult to take.
 
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icestorm81

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Welcome.

There's a lot of details you need to consider before purchasing any radio.

The #1 issue I see here is that you seem to be interested in purchasing an amateur (ham) radio, but talk about using FRS radios. You also posted this on the FRS/GMRS/MURS section.

The Yaesu radio, and just about any other ham radio on the market is design to be used ONLY on amateur radio frequencies. FRS and GMRS are not amateur radio frequencies.
The FCC requires type certification of radios used in almost all radio services -except- ham radio. FRS, GMRS And MURS radios require FCC Part 95 certification to be legal to use. The type certification ensures that the radio meets the requirements of the specific radio service it is intended for.

The Yaesu and other ham radios do NOT meet these requirements and do NOT have the necessary FCC type certification. They are not legal to use on FRS or GMRS (or any other radio service, except ham).

The ham radios will also not let you transmit on FRS/GMRS frequencies by design. You would be able to receive, but it won't let you transmit. You ~may~ hear some tell you that some radios can be modified to allow transmit on these bands. That violates the FCC rules, and doesn't resolve some of the other technical issues that would need to be addressed for it to work properly.

If all you need is FRS/GMRS, there are better radios on the market. A radio with a better antenna can help coverage a whole bunch.
If you need access to amateur radio systems, have an amateur radio license, and are looking for a suitable radio, you'd do better with a dedicated amateur radio.

Generally it comes down to figuring out exactly what you need and purchasing the correct radio. The Yaesu isn't the right one.

Give us some more details and we can help point you in the right direction.
Thanks. I had originally posted this thread in the "Amateur Radio" section but it looks like it was moved.. perhaps it is better suited in this section.

Okay so i am mainly looking for something reliable to communicate to my team members during a hike in mountains. A two way radio while i am in the back country. The range would be a key factor but it should ideally be within 5 miles or so of each other.

What would you suggest based on this or is there any other info you will need? thx in advance!
 
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icestorm81

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Just wanted to add that while I was researching the best option for my use, i had googled "radios used for Everest expedition" and came across an article where they were using a ham radio from ICOM. i also came across other articles where something from Yaesau and ICOM was recommended for communication and not some other cheap stuff (like baofeng) to be used in the back country. i can share the links assuming it is allowed per the forum policy.
 

mmckenna

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Thanks. I had originally posted this thread in the "Amateur Radio" section but it looks like it was moved.. perhaps it is better suited in this section.

Okay so i am mainly looking for something reliable to communicate to my team members during a hike in mountains. A two way radio while i am in the back country. The range would be a key factor but it should ideally be within 5 miles or so of each other.

What would you suggest based on this or is there any other info you will need? thx in advance!

OK, we can help.

Well, the first question would be to understand exactly what the usage is.
Is this a group of people out for recreation? Is it a business (guide service)? Or is it tied to public safety in some way?

Answering that would help us direct you to the correct radio service. Once we know the radio service, the correct radios could be recommended. There's a number of options, and getting you the correct ones is important.
 

vagrant

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@icestorm81 - The radio that would suit your parameters is the Icom IC-SAT 100. I have used them and they work well. Its use does not require your team to be licensed. You will need an account though to use the service and a view of the sky.
 

mmckenna

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Just wanted to add that while I was researching the best option for my use, i had googled "radios used for Everest expedition" and came across an article where they were using a ham radio from ICOM. i also came across other articles where something from Yaesau and ICOM was recommended for communication and not some other cheap stuff (like baofeng) to be used in the back country. i can share the links assuming it is allowed per the forum policy.

A couple of things regarding that:

Rules vary by country, so what might be legal in Nepal may not be legal in the USA.

Ham radio can be an excellent choice, but each and every individual would need to earn their own license, including a fairly simple 35 question multiple choice test that covers the basic technical details of the hobby.

Icom not only sells amateur radios, but they also are a big player in the commercial/public safety market.
Yaesu only makes amateur radios.

If you want reliability and quality, the word Baofeng should not ever pass your lips. In fact, go wash your mouth out with soap right now...
 

icestorm81

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OK, we can help.

Well, the first question would be to understand exactly what the usage is.
Is this a group of people out for recreation? Is it a business (guide service)? Or is it tied to public safety in some way?

Answering that would help us direct you to the correct radio service. Once we know the radio service, the correct radios could be recommended. There's a number of options, and getting you the correct ones is important.
Great! This would be for recreation only.
 

icestorm81

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@icestorm81 - The radio that would suit your parameters is the Icom IC-SAT 100. I have used them and they work well. Its use does not require your team to be licensed. You will need an account though to use the service and a view of the sky.
I came across IC-Sat 100. It is essentially a satellite phone. Not really looking for that.

I have a Garmin 66i which i always carry on back country trips and is mainly for emergencies/SOS.
 

mmckenna

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OK, so recreation probably means a somewhat limited budget.
The Icom SAT-100 mentioned above is a satellite two way radio. A cool device, but you'd be paying for satellite time for each and every radio. A great option if you want worldwide communications, but the cost may be excessive.


So, next question: Will you ever be using these radios outside the USA?

And, what is your comfort level on budget?
 

icestorm81

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A couple of things regarding that:

Rules vary by country, so what might be legal in Nepal may not be legal in the USA.

Ham radio can be an excellent choice, but each and every individual would need to earn their own license, including a fairly simple 35 question multiple choice test that covers the basic technical details of the hobby.

Icom not only sells amateur radios, but they also are a big player in the commercial/public safety market.
Yaesu only makes amateur radios.

If you want reliability and quality, the word Baofeng should not ever pass your lips. In fact, go wash your mouth out with soap right now...

Agreed. If a HAM radio is the best option then getting a license would be fine..it will mainly be my wife and I...and then some friends so it would be a small price to pay if that is what is needed. I had reached out to ICOM support in US and they had recommended some options but i reverted back to Yaesu VX-6R as it was the consensus online to use as a rugged radio for outdoor use in mountains...that is how Yaesu also describes it on their website.

As an fyi, there is also okmilo which was on kickstarter: Milo – The Action Communicator || Not sure though as it is a new product and based on my understanding in terms of range, it uses bluetooth so not that great.

lol at your comment about baofeng!! That made me smile!
 

icestorm81

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OK, so recreation probably means a somewhat limited budget.
The Icom SAT-100 mentioned above is a satellite two way radio. A cool device, but you'd be paying for satellite time for each and every radio. A great option if you want worldwide communications, but the cost may be excessive.


So, next question: Will you ever be using these radios outside the USA?

And, what is your comfort level on budget?

Let's assume no budget restrictions for the device itself.

I do not want to pay for a monthly service to be able to talk to members of the team on the same trip. Also, there is a caveat of having a clear view of the sky so in not soo good weather conditions you will be in trouble. Adding additional interfaces to rely on is not something i would prefer for my use.

It does not make sense to pay for a monthly service/subscription for my purpose where you just need to communicate to the members of your team.

I think for now we can assume that these radios will be used exclusively within the US to make things easier. Mainly looking for reliability, quality, range, being rugged.
 
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mmckenna

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As an fyi, there is also okmilo which was on kickstarter: Milo – The Action Communicator || Not sure though as it is a new product and based on my understanding in terms of range, it uses bluetooth so not that great.

I took a look at that Milo product. Usually those kick starter things are a lot of marketing and not much on the technical side. I had to go digging into their regulatory page, and found this:

Function Frequency Max. Transmit Power​
Bluetooth 2402-2480 MHZ 9 dBm (EIRP)​

The 2400MHz band is what is used by Bluetooth, WiFi and some other unlicensed radio services.
9dBm is the power output, and that is a tiny, tiny amount of power.
Bluetooth was originally designed to give about 30 feet of range indoors. It'll do a bit better outdoors, but not much. Under perfect conditions, maybe a mile at the most, but that would really be pushing it. My son and I use a set of bluetooth headsets built into our helmets when on our dirt bikes, and we get a few hundred yards at best.
Low power output is one issue. The other issue is 2400MHz will not propagate very well out in the wilderness.

Cool looking product, but not likely to be a good choice for what you are doing. At $250 each, I think you would be very disappointed.

lol at your comment about baofeng!! That made me smile!

If you need a bottom of the barrel crappy radio that you won't be sad if you lose, it's an option. Not good radios, not durable, not reliable. Someone bought a few at work and tried to use them on one of the systems I'm responsible for. It did not go well, they fell apart pretty quickly and the audio quality was poor. In other words, they got exactly what they paid for.

Some will gush on and on about how wonderful they are, but when you do some digging, you find out that they are not comparing them to anything reputable. It's so easy to get better radios, but some can only budget for a $20 Chinese toy.
 

iMONITOR

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Is a handheld ham/amateur radio going to work much better than an FRS/GMRS radio without a repeater? I'm thinking probably not.
 

mmckenna

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Let's assume no budget restrictions for the device itself.

I do not want to pay for a monthly service to be able to talk to members of the team on the same trip. Also, there is a caveat of having a clear view of the sky so in not soo good weather conditions you will be in trouble. Adding additional interfaces to rely on is not something i would prefer for my use.

It does not make sense to pay for a monthly service/subscription for my purpose where you just need to communicate to the members of your team.

I think for now we can assume that these radios will be used exclusively within the US to make things easier. Mainly looking for reliability, quality, range, being rugged.


OK, if everyone is willing to get their amateur radio license (it's not hard), then that is probably your best choice.

I think you pay $35 for 10 years and renewals are currently free. There are online courses you can take that will teach you the information you need to know to pass the test.
Amateur radio will do what you need, plus it will give you the option to talk to others if you so decide. Accessing repeaters can be handy if you are in range of one, it'll greatly increase your coverage, but they do not cover every inch of the country, especially out here in the west.

Other option would be to get some MURS radios. These don't require you taking a test to get a license. You don't need to pay for a license, either. FCC calls it "License by Rule", which translates into "If you follow the rules, you are good to go".
MURS is only legal to use in the USA, but that doesn't sound like an issue for you.
It uses 5 VHF channels, and VHF tends to work well in more rugged terrain.
It's limited to 2 watts, but don't get hung up on that. Transmitter power output doesn't impact range as much as you would think. Very little difference between a 2 watt MURS radio and a 5-6 watt ham radio.
Benefit is that since there is no license required, you can hand them to anyone and you're good to go.

Icom makes some really nice MURS radios:

One other HUGE benefit to MURS:
The radios are simple to use. On/Off/Volume control and a channel selector. Channels are already programmed, so it is essentially a case of charging the batteries, turning the radios on, setting them all to the same channel, and you are done.
One of the biggest issues I see with many new users to ham radio is that it is really easy to bump the controls on a ham radio and end up not being able to communicate. The complexity of the ham radios is great if you are into the technical side of it, but its a pain in the rear when you just want to talk to someone. Fumbling around with tiny keys on a radio and trying to read an LCD screen in the bright sunlight will frustrate many users, and getting off into a corner of the radio where you can no longer communicate can be a safety risk.

It would be up to you to decide how much technical stuff you want to get involved in. Ham radio is great, but it's complex. It's designed that way for experimenters and enthusiasts. For someone who just wants to talk to another person, something like MURS can be a much better choice.

In my career, I have to set up a lot of radios for users that are not "radio people". I learned quickly to make sure the radios are set up as simply as possible. It makes for a much better user experience, and less trouble calls….


If tech is your thing and you really want to get into the hobby, then ham radio is a great option. It has a steep learning curve, and that is a problem for some. Nothing wrong with that, but the frustration it creates is something to consider.

Being able to talk to others via ham radio can be interesting for some. It's part of the hobby that many enjoy. From a high mountain, you could talk to others hundreds of miles away easily.

The Yaesu's may be a good choice if that's the direction you want to go. Yaesu is a well respected company, and you'll get lots of good support. Their radios are pretty durable and will likely work well for what you want.


Only other thing you'd want to consider is making sure you can keep the radios running if you are out for a long time. Charging batteries in the field can be hard to do. The more complex a radio is, the more power it will use, the more batteries it will eat. A radio with a dead battery doesn't do anyone any good. Carrying spare batteries is an option, but consider the additional weight. Solar chargers may let you charge a spare set while you are hiking. The Yaesu gives you the option of using AA alkaline cells in a separate battery case, which can be beneficial.


So, it really sounds to me like there are two options for you:
Ham radio, a lot of flexibility, a lot of options, the option of talking to others out side your group. Downside is requiring each individual to be licensed, and the complexity of the radios.

MURS, less flexibility, less options, but will do exactly what you need. Not likely to hear or be able to talk to others outside your group. Upside is the radios are much simpler to use and no licensing required.


Also, since I'm sure someone will bring it up:
A lot of people get into amateur radio for "emergencies". The idea that you can raise someone from just about anywhere and get help.
That's certainly an option and does happen frequently.
Just keep in mind, ham radio is a hobby, and there is zero requirements that anyone be listening. There are zero requirements that even if someone is listening, that they'll help you out. You are dealing with hobbyists, not professionals.
The Garmin is the right device for your emergency needs. The radios are for the convenience, either MURS or ham.
 

KK6HRW

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Indeed, it would be interesting for the original poster to compare performance between an expensive MURS Radio (two-watt Icom) and his expensive FRS Radio (two-watt BCA).
 

ko6jw_2

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There are a number of excellent points in the replies above:

1. Short range communication among the group.
2. Contacting others outside the area in an emergency.
3. Communicating for other purposes outside the area.

If everyone in your group wants to. get an amateur license then that would be good. If they don't GMRS would serve some of your needs. In an emergency both ham and GMRS are problematical due to limited range. Also, ham radio is a hobby not an emergency. radio service. If no one is listening you're are out of luck.

The Garmin is truly the best emergency method. It uses satellites an is accessible worldwide. You can activate your subscription when you need it and not pay monthly if you don't. My new iPhone has satellite capability too. Have not tried it yet but it helped a couple in the LA area who crashed in a deep canyon where normal cell service was not available.

Communicating outside the areas may be problematical. Unless there are mountain top repeaters you'l probably be out of luck using VHF or UHF. You could consider a portable HF radio, but the extra weight would be a problem. Batteries as well. Hard core ham stuff.

The VX-6R is not necessarily the best choice. Yes, it is rugged and water resistant. I have had one for years and it has served me well. You might consider the FT-5DR. Although it is a lot more expensive, it has built in GPS. In its digital mode it transmits your position automatically. Also it can do APRS at the same time as it transmits on another frequency. Great tools for the back country. Also, water resistant. I accidentally left one outside in the rain for several days. It was fine. By the way, with the accessory speaker/mic, it can send low res color images.

No single device will do everything you want.

By the way, ham is not an acronym. it's just ham, not HAM.
 
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