A little antenna and Baofeng info wanted

[sofasurfer]

What happens if an antenna is not matched to a radio. Back in my cb days the story was that you would burn up your radio. Is this the case? Just wondering how important it is for me to study up on antennas.

I have a Baofeng uv5r and updated the original ducky with a Nagoya NA-771. Works good but now I want better t/r in my vehicle. so want to get an antenna for my truck. Don't want to drill any holes. Thinking maybe something that attaches to the fly window behind the driver door and I can just run the coax inside from there. Any recommendations?

Also, has anyone used the Baofeng UV-5001? Best price around but no reviews. I am pretty unknowledgable so I am not privy to what to look for. I did read that it does not have "channel groups". I think what this is, for example, the ability to have a group of channels for repeaters in one county and a group of channels for repeaters (or whatever) in another county. Is this what "channel groups" refers to? I noticed that the UV5R does not have that ability and it really would make a big difference to me. Other than that they say it is a very good radio for the price.

I'm going to get the better antenna for the UV5R but I am also pretty interested in a radio with more power, thus, the UV-5001. With the UV5R I am pretty much stuck with using repeaters because I don't have enough power to get out where more people are talking. I rarely hear anyone except on the repeater. Am I correct in thinking that my problem is because of a lack of power?

 

[mmckenna]

What happens if an antenna is not matched to a radio. Back in my cb days the story was that you would burn up your radio. Is this the case? Just wondering how important it is for me to study up on antennas.

Yeah, basically, the final RF transistor can overheat enough to damage it. If it gets damaged, the RF output power will drop to something in the milliwatt range.
Most portable radios will see this and throttle back the power to protect itself. I'm not confident that these low end Chinese radios will do that.
Most hand held radios are using pretty inefficient antennas anyway, that and the lack of a good ground plane results in poor performance. Making it worse by using a mismatched antenna isn't going to help.

I have a Baofeng uv5r and updated the original ducky with a Nagoya NA-771. Works good but now I want better t/r in my vehicle. so want to get an antenna for my truck. Don't want to drill any holes. Thinking maybe something that attaches to the fly window behind the driver door and I can just run the coax inside from there. Any recommendations?

You'd need a ground independent antenna to do that since those types of mounts don't provide any sort of ground plane under the antenna. A 1/2 wave antenna on VHF is going to be nearly 40 inches long. You'd really do better using something that mounts to metal. Either a magnetic mount placed on the center of the truck roof, or a bracket off the front fender. The mag mount will probably work better.

May I ask why you don't want to drill a hole and do this properly? Is it lack of experience? Fear of damaging your vehicle?

Also, has anyone used the Baofeng UV-5001? Best price around but no reviews. I am pretty unknowledgable so I am not privy to what to look for. I did read that it does not have "channel groups". I think what this is, for example, the ability to have a group of channels for repeaters in one county and a group of channels for repeaters (or whatever) in another county. Is this what "channel groups" refers to? I noticed that the UV5R does not have that ability and it really would make a big difference to me. Other than that they say it is a very good radio for the price.

No idea. I learned long ago that you (usually) get what you pay for. I work in the industry so I use name brand commercial radios for all my amateur radio and work use.

I'm going to get the better antenna for the UV5R but I am also pretty interested in a radio with more power, thus, the UV-5001. With the UV5R I am pretty much stuck with using repeaters because I don't have enough power to get out where more people are talking. I rarely hear anyone except on the repeater. Am I correct in thinking that my problem is because of a lack of power?

Probably not so much lack of power. More than likely it's that you are trying to use a portable radio inside a vehicle with a very inefficient antenna. The vehicle creates a "Faraday Cage" which blocks/absorbs most of the RF energy from your radio. Getting an antenna outside the vehicle will improve things considerably, even with the low power output of these radios.
Installing a mobile radio that puts out 40-50 watts as well as a proper antenna should solve the issue, but you can still do pretty good with 5 watts and a good antenna, provided it's outside the vehicle.

 

[TLF82]

Yeah, basically, the final RF transistor can overheat enough to damage it. If it gets damaged, the RF output power will drop to something in the milliwatt range.
Most portable radios will see this and throttle back the power to protect itself. I'm not confident that these low end Chinese radios will do that.
Most hand held radios are using pretty inefficient antennas anyway, that and the lack of a good ground plane results in poor performance. Making it worse by using a mismatched antenna isn't going to help.



You'd need a ground independent antenna to do that since those types of mounts don't provide any sort of ground plane under the antenna. A 1/2 wave antenna on VHF is going to be nearly 40 inches long. You'd really do better using something that mounts to metal. Either a magnetic mount placed on the center of the truck roof, or a bracket off the front fender. The mag mount will probably work better.

May I ask why you don't want to drill a hole and do this properly? Is it lack of experience? Fear of damaging your vehicle?



No idea. I learned long ago that you (usually) get what you pay for. I work in the industry so I use name brand commercial radios for all my amateur radio and work use.



Probably not so much lack of power. More than likely it's that you are trying to use a portable radio inside a vehicle with a very inefficient antenna. The vehicle creates a "Faraday Cage" which blocks/absorbs most of the RF energy from your radio. Getting an antenna outside the vehicle will improve things considerably, even with the low power output of these radios.
Installing a mobile radio that puts out 40-50 watts as well as a proper antenna should solve the issue, but you can still do pretty good with 5 watts and a good antenna, provided it's outside the vehicle.

I agree with everything said above. I fall into the same category as him. I run all commercial equipment for my ham needs.

Your lack of hearing simplex stations is the fact you are using a portable radio with a very weak front end. You can't expect a $30 radio to preform like a $300 radio much less a multi thousand dollar commercial unit.

A mobile radio will be better suited for mobile use. The front end will be better tuned for that kind of use.

In the radio world you get what you pay for... And a properly drilled NMO mount can't be beat.

 

[sofasurfer]

May I ask why you don't want to drill a hole and do this properly? Is it lack of experience? Fear of damaging your vehicle?

Just looking for a quick and easy job. But now that you gave me some info I will probably go with a magnetic mount.
"damage my vehicle"? I have 352000 miles.
Thanks. Lots of good info.

 

[sofasurfer]

When buying a mobile antenna I would want it to work with my hand-held 2m/70cm as well as with a mobile that I intend to buy. For the hand-held I would need to buy an adapter as the radio has a SMA connector and most antennas have a PL-259 connector. Correct so far?

Is my only concern that the antenna is for a 2m/70cm radio? In other words, will any 2m/70cm antenna fill my needs?

 

[vo1nc]

I have a UV5R in my car . I am using a "TRAM Amateur Dual-Band Magnet Antenna (1185)" . The cost is about $20.00 on ebay shipping included . The SWR is good on vhf and uhf . You can also get the adapter
on ebay for about $2.00 . I have it installed on 2015 Mazda Hatch back.


Barry vo1nc

 

[KC4RAF]

Antenna, antenna, antenna.

A high end antenna will make a cheap transceiver perform rather well as expected. As stated above, don't expect a cheap radio to be anywhere as good as the higher dollar units. I also have the UV-5R and it performs okay, but side by side to my FT-2900R, just no way coming close. I bought mine on a whim and wasn't surprised at the functions when compared.
But to make that Baofeng work as good as it can, don't skimp on the antenna. Plus, you will use that antenna for a name brand transceiver later on down the road. So heed what's posted by others.
HTH

 

[jwt873]

I have an IC-7000 mounted in the car. For UHF/VHF, I have a dual band Larsen 2/70 antenna which is mounted using an NMO trunk lip mount. Similar to this --> Workman WEP314N Trunk Lip Mount with NMO Connector - Other Mounts - Antenna Mounts - Antennas & Mounts (Most ham radio shops sell mounts like this).

The IC-7000 doesn't do D-Star, so I picked up an Icom ID-51 Handheld for that purpose. I have an adapter harness consisting of a 3 foot length of thin RG-173 with an SMA on one end and an SO239 on the other. This lets me connect the ID-51 to my trunk mounted antenna. (See image below).

The thin RG-173 prevents strain on the radio's SMA connector when it's being held. You can buy harnesses like this off of eBay for $5 to $7 dollars. If you have, (or know someone) with the connectors, the coax and a crimper, you can make your own for less.

To answer your Baofeng question... I also have an older Baofeng UV-3R. I've hooked it up to my external antenna trunk mount antenna in the same manner to see how it would work. It performs pretty well. It's MUCH better than using the radio in the car with the supplied 'ducky' antenna.

For extra kick, I have an old RF Concepts rfc 2/70G dual band linear amp. It boosts 5 watts to 30. With that, and the Baofeng I'm getting close to having the capability of a dedicated mobile radio. (But of course, the front end performance isn't quite the same).

 

[mmckenna]

Just looking for a quick and easy job. But now that you gave me some info I will probably go with a magnetic mount.
"damage my vehicle"? I have 352000 miles.
Thanks. Lots of good info.

Quick and easy usually doesn't pay off. It'll work, but, if you've got 352K on your vehicle, drilling the hole will make life easier all around. Magnetic mounts are not all that bad, however, the issue is that the coaxial cable -will- get damaged by routing it in through a door, hatchback, window, etc. Damage the coax and you can damage your radio.

 

[mmckenna]

When buying a mobile antenna I would want it to work with my hand-held 2m/70cm as well as with a mobile that I intend to buy. For the hand-held I would need to buy an adapter as the radio has a SMA connector and most antennas have a PL-259 connector. Correct so far?

Is my only concern that the antenna is for a 2m/70cm radio? In other words, will any 2m/70cm antenna fill my needs?

Skip the adapters, ___especially____ on a portable radio. Hanging adapters or heavy coax off the connector on top of the radio will eventually damage the radio, often damaging the antenna connector.

It's easy enough to purchase NMO mounts, magnetic or otherwise, with pre-terminated SMA connectors on the end. Your radio will thank you.

A good quality 2/70 antenna will work for what you need if you are going to only be transmitting on the 2 meter/70 centimeter bands. I used to have the Larsen NMO 2/70's on my truck. Overall good performer, excellent quality, no issues over many years. Well worth the extra few bucks over the Chinese made Tram/Browning antennas.

 

[K5MPH]

Yeah, basically, the final RF transistor can overheat enough to damage it. If it gets damaged, the RF output power will drop to something in the milliwatt range.
Most portable radios will see this and throttle back the power to protect itself. I'm not confident that these low end Chinese radios will do that.
Most hand held radios are using pretty inefficient antennas anyway, that and the lack of a good ground plane results in poor performance. Making it worse by using a mismatched antenna isn't going to help.



You'd need a ground independent antenna to do that since those types of mounts don't provide any sort of ground plane under the antenna. A 1/2 wave antenna on VHF is going to be nearly 40 inches long. You'd really do better using something that mounts to metal. Either a magnetic mount placed on the center of the truck roof, or a bracket off the front fender. The mag mount will probably work better.

May I ask why you don't want to drill a hole and do this properly? Is it lack of experience? Fear of damaging your vehicle?



No idea. I learned long ago that you (usually) get what you pay for. I work in the industry so I use name brand commercial radios for all my amateur radio and work use.



Probably not so much lack of power. More than likely it's that you are trying to use a portable radio inside a vehicle with a very inefficient antenna. The vehicle creates a "Faraday Cage" which blocks/absorbs most of the RF energy from your radio. Getting an antenna outside the vehicle will improve things considerably, even with the low power output of these radios.
Installing a mobile radio that puts out 40-50 watts as well as a proper antenna should solve the issue, but you can still do pretty good with 5 watts and a good antenna, provided it's outside the vehicle.

Im with mmckenna on every thing he said,but one thing is that the UV-5r will Fry with high SWR on it i know one guy that has all ready done it.......

 

[TLF82]

I have an IC-7000 mounted in the car. For UHF/VHF, I have a dual band Larsen 2/70 antenna which is mounted using an NMO trunk lip mount. Similar to this --> Workman WEP314N Trunk Lip Mount with NMO Connector - Other Mounts - Antenna Mounts - Antennas & Mounts (Most ham radio shops sell mounts like this).

The IC-7000 doesn't do D-Star, so I picked up an Icom ID-51 Handheld for that purpose. I have an adapter harness consisting of a 3 foot length of thin RG-173 with an SMA on one end and an SO239 on the other. This lets me connect the ID-51 to my trunk mounted antenna. (See image below).

The thin RG-173 prevents strain on the radio's SMA connector when it's being held. You can buy harnesses like this off of eBay for $5 to $7 dollars. If you have, (or know someone) with the connectors, the coax and a crimper, you can make your own for less.

To answer your Baofeng question... I also have an older Baofeng UV-3R. I've hooked it up to my external antenna trunk mount antenna in the same manner to see how it would work. It performs pretty well. It's MUCH better than using the radio in the car with the supplied 'ducky' antenna.

For extra kick, I have an old RF Concepts rfc 2/70G dual band linear amp. It boosts 5 watts to 30. With that, and the Baofeng I'm getting close to having the capability of a dedicated mobile radio. (But of course, the front end performance isn't quite the same).

The thought of an amplifier on a Baofeng is almost cringe worthy. Be careful with that. You could be causing issues that you don't know about.

 

[KD8DVR]

For extra kick, I have an old RF Concepts rfc 2/70G dual band linear amp. It boosts 5 watts to 30. With that, and the Baofeng I'm getting close to having the capability of a dedicated mobile radio. (But of course, the front end performance isn't quite the same).

You do not want to use a "Linear Amp" on FM. You want a Class C amplifier for FM.

Anyhow, an amplifier with a Baofeng is A. Bad. Idea.

the spurious emissions on many of these radios would be amplified, thus getting you in hot water. While expected and common practice on CB, it will not be tolerated on the amateur bands.

 

[KE0GXN]

Sofasurfer, another mag mount 2m/70cm antenna you might look at is the Diamond MR77SMAJ which is specifically terminated in a reverse SMA configuration for most chicoms.

It has has great reviews!

 

[KC3ECJ]

I have a UV5R in my car . I am using a "TRAM Amateur Dual-Band Magnet Antenna (1185)" . The cost is about $20.00 on ebay shipping included . The SWR is good on vhf and uhf . You can also get the adapter
on ebay for about $2.00 . I have it installed on 2015 Mazda Hatch back.


Barry vo1nc

Yeah I use a 1185 too.

Good antenna.

With dual banders, you get about 3/4 wavelength for UHF, so that would be good for flat areas, but not so much for hills and mountains.

But if you only want a temporary setup it is a way to go.

Thing though is with the 1185 you might want to put some felt or duct tape over the magnet to protect the vehicle. And I wish they added another foot of length to the cable.

 

[sofasurfer]

Sofasurfer, another mag mount 2m/70cm antenna you might look at is the Diamond MR77SMAJ which is specifically terminated in a reverse SMA configuration for most chicoms.

It has has great reviews!

I will go look at this. But what do you think of this antenna...aside from the fact that I would need an adapter?

 

[KE0GXN]

I will go look at this. But what do you think of this antenna...aside from the fact that I would need an adapter?

If you are using it with a BaoFeng you will not need an adaptor. It will screw directly onto the reverse SMA antenna connector on the radio.

I do not own this antenna yet, but I will be purchasing it. However the radio I am buying has a traditional SMA connector, so I will be buying a different model of the same antenna.

 

[AB4BF]

If you are using it with a BaoFeng you will not need an adaptor. It will screw directly onto the reverse SMA antenna connector on the radio.

I do not own this antenna yet, but I will be purchasing it. However the radio I am buying has a traditional SMA connector, so I will be buying a different model of the same antenna.

When I bought my BaoFeng UV-82, I also purchased a Nagoya NA-771 dual band HT antenna. A couple of weeks ago, the antenna broke or burnt up internally. I contacted BaoFeng Tech here in the USA and they wrote me back that the antenna is covered for a year - if had bought it directly from them. I purchased it through Amazon and all the items, Radio, cable and antenna were only covered for thirty days. Gotta start reading the fine print.

When the antenna broke, I started looking at comments and reviews for different antennas and what I could find was the Diamond SRJ77CA with the reverse SMA connector was deemed the best by many people. I then found it on sale at a very good distributor and purchased it for less than $27 bucks with shipping. I was worried that it may be a knock-off but the saleslady assured me it was the real thing.

I received it and the Diamond is 3 times as heavy as the Nagoya. I connected it and fired her up. The UHF was full quieting on the repeater where before it was always some static and the 2 meter was more robust. You will not go wrong with this antenna.

 

[k6cpo]

I started out using a mag mount, but when my truck was broken into, partially because of the mag mount antenna, I swore I would never use one for my main antenna again. I went ahead and drilled a hole in the roof of the truck for an NMO and that's what I will use henceforth.

I recently took over driving my wife's SUV when we were given another, newer car with better gas mileage. Since we may be selling the SUV in the near future, she mandated "no holes" when moved the radio from the truck to the SUV. I went with a hood edge NMO mount that works like a champ. When we sell the SUV, I will move the edge mount to the truck as a spot for a second antenna.

 

[sofasurfer]

NE0GXN You mentioned a "reverse SMA" connector on the Diamond MR77SMAJ. For the sake of learning, does this refer to the SMA female? Also know as the RP-SMA. I believe that what is on my Baofeng is a SMA male. Correct?

EDITED:
I just found this site http://blog.oscarliang.net/difference-sma-rpsma-connector-antenna-fpv-copter/
I see the differance. A little confusing. The RP-SMA has the threads on the outside and the SMA has the threads on the inside.
I see that the connector on the radio has threads on both the inside and outside. I wonder if this is to accept either RP-SMA or SMA. I see my antenna is an RP-SAM female.
A bit confusing but I'll get there. Just asking if I am thinking correctly.