A mayday?

[krokus]

Outside my public safety experiences, the closest I have had to answering a Mayday call was as a military communicator.

While I was stationed in Australia, a typhoon ravaged Guam. As the typhoon weakened, I was on shift, and in the tech control facility. On HiCom, ship called for a higher level command, and got no reply. They moved on, and asked for any station, another station answered as I grabbed the microphone. The ship, that was based in Guam, reported that they had broken loose from the pier, with no propulsion, and was adrift in the harbor. There was concern that they would run aground, as they were pushed outside safe areas. (This is why ships that can go to sea, as a major storm approaches, head away from the shore.)

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[AK9R]

The "when all else fails" tag line irks me.

The folks from FEMA's Office of Emergency Communications who teach the AUXCOMM course that some of us have taken make your point very clearly. They state that "when all else fails" is somewhat offensive to public safety professionals and public safety communications professionals. When a public safety leader who has spent millions of dollars on a hardened, redundant voice and data communications system is confronted by a ham radio operator carrying a Baofeng who mutters the "when all else fails" phrase, it's very easy for that leader to think "no way am I depending on this guy to bail me out in an emergency".

Rather than "when all else fails", how about "when all else gets overloaded, maybe amateur radio can help out with the low-priority traffic"? But, that doesn't have the impact of the phrase that the ARRL adopted.

A few years ago, a new guy took over responsibility for the ARES programs at the ARRL. He started talking about "auxiliary communications" rather than "emergency communications". He wrote an article for QST where he discussed making this change to the ARES program. Holy cow! The backlash from the amateur radio community was tremendous and the new guy eventually backed down. But, he was on the right track. What amateur radio operators can do is auxiliary communications. Except in very rare situations, amateur radio operators are not qualified, either through training or experience, to be emergency communicators.

After I took the AUXCOMM course a few years ago, I removed the ARRL license plate from my vehicle. You know, the one that says "When all else fails". Heck, I don't even have amateur radio callsign plates on my vehicle anymore.

 

[KC4RAF]

What about "Pan, Pan"? I suspect that call would be used during a commercial flight when there's been some type of disturbance on board. But I've never heard a Pan call

 

[nd5y]

What about "Pan, Pan"? I suspect that call would be used during a commercial flight when there's been some type of disturbance on board. But I've never heard a Pan call

I have heard airliners call ATC with passenger, mechanical and weather problems and declare in-flight emergencies and never heard them use PAN-PAN.

 

[AC5PS]

PAN PAN PAN is used for a situation that is urgent but life and machine is not in immediate danger. But if the condition continues to long (like not landing without legal fuel reserves but not close to running out) it could result in MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY then it will be an emergency.

 

[mmckenna]

A few years ago, a new guy took over responsibility for the ARES programs at the ARRL. He started talking about "auxiliary communications" rather than "emergency communications". He wrote an article for QST where he discussed making this change to the ARES program. Holy cow! The backlash from the amateur radio community was tremendous and the new guy eventually backed down. But, he was on the right track. What amateur radio operators can do is auxiliary communications. Except in very rare situations, amateur radio operators are not qualified, either through training or experience, to be emergency communicators.

One of a few reasons I stopped renewing my ARRL membership years ago. ARRL seems to be misguided and more about marketing than actually advancing amateur radio.

I should have mentioned auxiliary communications earlier. I think that's on the right track. There is still a role for amateur radio operators to fill, and it's not "emergency communications". With amateur radio seeming to suffer from an identity crisis, hanging on to the "emcomm" idea isn't helping.

 

[N4GIX]

It's a hobby, and a rich mans hobby at that.

While I agree with nearly all that you wrote, I take exception to the above. One does not have to be a "rich man" to enjoy ham radio as a hobby.

Granted, if one wishes to have a "contest station" it does require some enormous sums of investment in hardware, no argument there!

However, of the forty-five active members of my local club, only one could be considered "rich" as he is a fairly successful optician. The rest of us are mostly retired with extremely modest retirement income, or in three cases still in high school!

 

[mmckenna]

While I agree with nearly all that you wrote, I take exception to the above. One does not have to be a "rich man" to enjoy ham radio as a hobby.

Granted, if one wishes to have a "contest station" it does require some enormous sums of investment in hardware, no argument there!

However, of the forty-five active members of my local club, only one could be considered "rich" as he is a fairly successful optician. The rest of us are mostly retired with extremely modest retirement income, or in three cases still in high school!

I hear you. Much can be done with a simple radio. It's certainly a lot cheaper to get into amateur radio now than it was a decade ago.
My first real amateur radio was a dual band hand held. A big deal back in it's time. I think it cost me somewhere around $400 in the late 1980's. Now you can get a similar device for $30.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

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Probably the idea of 'rich' gets muddled when describing US radio hams. The equipment costs here, today, makes make it a relatively accessible hobby for just about everyone... its just the equipment levels, of course, that vary.
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Outside the US it is a different story. Buying consumer electronics in many countries is prohibitively expensive- there it is truly a rich man's hobby....one of the reasons so many DX locations are so rare.
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I lived and worked in a Central American country for some time. The number of active radio hams could be number'd on your fingers (maybe a toe thrown in.)
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When I wanted to get a ham license it was more of a courtesy extended to me because- well, this is going to sound very politically incorrect- because of my social class.
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I was a "Condesa"... "una Patrona privilegiada, "... an agent of the United States, a family friend of the Chief of Police.... no questions asked; I received a license with an utmost courtly courtesy**.
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I don't think any regular citizen would have been denied becoming a ham... but only a small privileged few could afford the radios.
Also, all two way shortwave radios were administ'd by the police; Anyone-- except maybe this Duena Americana would be suspect (then again, maybe not; CIA?... )... Not to mention very few in that country went voluntarily to police stations !
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Most of the Third world is like that- it is a rich man's hobby. Be thankful Guys, for the abundance we have here in the US....
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Lauri...
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** I was very politely asked what the letter "A" was in Morse code.... more out of making conversation than anything else... it was asked by an elegant, gentlemanly police captain. I was then offered to choose my callsign- not difficult to do, being there were so few .. I used my initials as the suffix..

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

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"........What about "Pan, Pan"? I suspect that call would be used...."
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As Tinkerbell I often yell this out, when Peter is being a Jerk.....
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.....Sorry, I couldn't resist that....
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(I have never heard that distress call, or Sécurité either...)

 

[alcahuete]

What about "Pan, Pan"? I suspect that call would be used during a commercial flight when there's been some type of disturbance on board. But I've never heard a Pan call

The thing to remember is that commercial aircraft are in contact with ATC for 99.9% of the flights they do. There is no reason to mayday or pan pan on frequency. You simply tell ATC what's going on, declare an emergency if you need to, etc.

It has happened for sure (mainly foreign carriers), but it isn't really the standard protocol when you are in contact with ATC. If you're on Guard or UNICOM, etc., that's a different story, because you want to draw the attention of whomever is listening.

 

[N4GIX]

I hear you. Much can be done with a simple radio. It's certainly a lot cheaper to get into amateur radio now than it was a decade ago.
My first real amateur radio was a dual band hand held. A big deal back in it's time. I think it cost me somewhere around $400 in the late 1980's. Now you can get a similar device for $30.

My first ham radio was a 3 channel, crystal controlled 2m HT that came as a kit. All discrete parts as SM hadn't been invented yet! If I remember correctly it cost about $230 or thereabouts. This was back in the early sixties.

My second rig was a Christmas gift from my parents, a nifty Heathkit SB-101. I have no idea what my folks paid for it, but since I'd be sharing it with my dad anyway, I don't think the cost was much of a relevant factor.

 

[K2NEC]

I have had someone call an emergency when there was an MVA on his way to work. Another person on the air took the call and called police for him. He said the police was really confused why he was calling the police for someone a few towns away but when he told them that the was a HAM they seemed to understand. The individual that called in the accident via radio is an EMT so he got bis bag from his car and went to see if everyone was OK while the other guy was calling for help. I always hope that if I need to call in an emergency someone will be on frequency or at least monitoring so that I will be able to get help. If not I always carry my cell phone or know that someone else does.

 

[PrivatelyJeff]

I think it might be a good idea to set up a radio on a pre determined frequency for a given area in certain PSAPs (highway patrol sounds best to me or a park service dispatch center), that is monitored 24/7. If there is an emergency, you can call it in on that frequency and it would be answered by a dispatcher who would treat it like a 911 call. When you drive into a new zone, there would be a sign telling you the appropriate frequency to use for that area.

 

[ipfd320]

Yah That Wont Work---Thats Opening the Doors for False Alarm Calls

 

[majoco]

The highest level of distress call, "Mayday" is French, M'aider, help me.

The third level, "Securitay" is also French, Securité, safety

Where on earth did the second level "Pan" come from? La poêle, a cooking plate?

Je ne comprends pas.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

Where on earth did the second level "Pan" come from?

Je ne comprends pas.

moi aussi

 

[mmckenna]

From Wikipedia:
" In French, a panne ([pan], "pahn") is a breakdown, such as a mechanical failure."

 

[mmckenna]

I think it might be a good idea to set up a radio on a pre determined frequency for a given area in certain PSAPs (highway patrol sounds best to me or a park service dispatch center), that is monitored 24/7. If there is an emergency, you can call it in on that frequency and it would be answered by a dispatcher who would treat it like a 911 call. When you drive into a new zone, there would be a sign telling you the appropriate frequency to use for that area.

This has been brought up before, and I get the idea. Some dispatch centers monitored CB Channel 9 a long time ago. One of our local PSAP's had a CB in the console up until about 10 years ago.

However, I can pretty much explain the issues with reference to one post:
https://forums.radioreference.com/a...-has-declined-e-b-s-referral-my-f-o-case.html
LID's like this guy will decide that his amateur radio license gives him access to whatever frequency he wants and will set up a net and run check-ins on the PSAP contact frequency and basically wreck something useful for everyone else.

Then you've got the amateurs that think they have access to all frequencies, even public safety frequencies and decide this opens the door to contact a PSAP on their main dispatch frequencies because "County X doesn't have a ham contact channel to the PSAP", "I was out of range", etc.

Funding becomes a big issue, too. Who's going to fund this. It's not as simple as a donated BaoFeng and a home built 1/4 wave antenna that some ham makes. A dispatch center will be running a radio console and the radio will need to support that interface, which rules out amateur radios. No PSAP radio tech is going to want a BaoFeng around his/her radio equipment.

The way to do this is to either use the phone, which will give the dispatchers some useful location information automatically, or for amateur radio operators to stop being such cheap skates and get a cell phone. If contacting public safety in an emergency is not possible with current approved means, then go get a $200 PLB.

Or just go back to CB channel 9, that way everyone could use it, not just amateurs.

 

[reedeb]

Back in the 90's I was going to work had a guy in front of me slide into a ditch. Folks in town were chatting on CB I asked them to call PD let them know he was stuck. No one would call and ONE even said she really didn't want to get involved. Just then a Cruiser showed up He had heard my call on CB.and was on the way. a few yrs later I got my Ticket and was on my way home from work. Had a 3 car accident.Got on 2 Meter and passed it on to a couple of guys chatting they called 911 and in less then 15 minutes Fire EMS and Police were on the seen.