A Number of FDNY/NYPD Questions

[SKYNET156]

I just got back to nyc, i am staying in murray hill with roomates, and i have been listening to NYPD/FDNY non stop.

I have a number of questions about the systems and codes


1. How does the NYPD hand out unit designations, i heard most of the designations from Adam - Ida, I dont think i heard anything past Ida,
I also heard Special command post, and IMPACT Post,
With Adam - Ida, how do they assign those?

2. With units calling into central, What makes a unit "red"

3. FDNY/NYPD run both UHF now, why is it that the audio is deeper and bassier on FDNY, and why is it that they leave the repeaters in hangtime for so long?

4. As far as "special command post" what would that be?

5. when an IMPACT post is assinged, they call in to central as IMPACT post and then the Number, is the number of the unit the street or area they are in? or is it just a the number of the post?

6. also, I heard SOD central dispatch a call, and the dispatcher told the units that the call came is as a "death tap??" she said that it means someone tapped on the phone for help, she flat out told the units over the air that the prob never heard of that before, Has anyone heard of that?

Any help would be appreciated, i love listening to this...it's one of the best things i ever heard, it's non stop

 

[CqDx]

1. How does the NYPD hand out unit designations, i heard most of the designations from Adam - Ida, I dont think i heard anything past Ida,
I also heard Special command post, and IMPACT Post,
With Adam - Ida, how do they assign those?

Designators are assinged based on where the RMP patrol. They are based on geographic locations. (ie. Adam will be 10-15th Street between 2nd and 3rd Avenue, and Boy will be 15th-20th Street between 2nd and 3rd Avenue)

Posts are usually stationed at high crime/pedestrian traffic area, such as subway station, church..etc

. With units calling into central, What makes a unit "red"

It is actually "Read" in past tense, meaning the unit has received the message, sort of like a short version of "10-4". Same thing with "Read Direct", meaning central give information to A unit, and B unit has also copied message as well. B unit will than reply "Read Direct"

3. FDNY/NYPD run both UHF now, why is it that the audio is deeper and bassier on FDNY, and why is it that they leave the repeaters in hangtime for so long?

It is just the way the system was built. NYPD repeaters have been up for so many years, and FDNY UHF repeater were only up since last year.


I will leave 4,5,6 to someone more knowledgble.

 

[SKYNET156]

Thanks for all the info, i love listening to it, there was so much going on MTS 17 and PCT 1 that everytime i went to change the channel i couldn't because the calls never ended,
i had to wait for the 3pm voice change,

Ok, so i understand about the "read" now, that makes sense,

The way they dispatch seems so complicated, I often wonder how they know what's going on,

I was just down in times square this morning watching the filiming of good morning america, and i saw the new radios that they have, they look pretty nice, and they have clear, but alot of the ones that i have looked at are already missing knobs, and scratched and dented and chipped,

I was actually able to hold one, their pretty duarable, and heavy duty,

any other info would help, i am currently studying n2nov.net

 

[ff026]

4. As far as "special command post" what would that be?

its either a "special post" which is just another name for a foot post, or a Command Post or THV (Temporary Headquarters Vehicle) which is a mobile command post.

5. when an IMPACT post is assinged, they call in to central as IMPACT post and then the Number, is the number of the unit the street or area they are in? or is it just a the number of the post?

It is usually just the number of the post not the location but it is PBMS and they may have there own way of doing things, like everything else.

6. also, I heard SOD central dispatch a call, and the dispatcher told the units that the call came is as a "death tap??" she said that it means someone tapped on the phone for help, she flat out told the units over the air that the prob never heard of that before, Has anyone heard of that?

Never heard of a death tap before, who knows.

The way they dispatch seems so complicated, I often wonder how they know what's going on,

It may seem confusing but it makes sense to the cops on the street. It is a little confusing at first but it is something you get used pretty fast.

I was just down in times square this morning watching the filiming of good morning america, and i saw the new radios that they have, they look pretty nice, and they have clear, but alot of the ones that i have looked at are already missing knobs, and scratched and dented and chipped,

If it was a vertex radio, I personally do not like the new vertex radio's even with the improvement's that they made to the radio.

If it was an SSE5000 (looks like a saber but it is actually an XTS5000 in a saber case), i prefer that radio!

 

[SKYNET156]

That was the first time i ever heard of the death tap too..SOD dispatcher explained it over the air to the units and they were puzzled too,
The radio that she let me hold was a Vertex radio. It was a little boxier than the sabers, felt alot more durable than the sabers, and alot louder, she carried her radio twords her back right pocket and it was very loud and readable,
it had 512 channels, but i think the display was limited to 4 or 6 letters, i forget,
but it looked like a nice radio, she said that they give them different model radios all the time, but she liked the Vertex the best because it was so loud and clear and very clean audio,
I was showing her my MT2000, and i felt like i was holding coal next to gold,
I don't like the sound of the MDC signal that the vertex puts out, i like the saber MDC alot better,
I am starting to get the lingo, it just takes time and word pad on my laptop to follow it...lol
I just discovered today that before the voice change, they switch from regular unit designations, for ex : north david day.
i am guessing that is so the dispatcher knows that it is a day time unit during shift change,
But i am getting it slowly but surely

 

[62Truck]

If it was an SSE5000 (looks like a saber but it is actually an XTS5000 in a saber case), i prefer that radio![/QUOTE]

I've seen one of the SSE5000 when I went down to the city for the New Year festivities very nice radio, would love to get my hands on one. The reason why I think they kept it like a saber is so they could still use the accessory's that they had for the old sabers..batteries, Mics, holsters, chargers ect...but I haven't seen too many of them around, the rest of the patrol officers had the old saber I's, and I believe NYPD Detective are using VX800's

 

[ff026]

yes at the change of tour to differentiate from one tour to the other units will go over the air as 43Adam day or 43 Adam 4 by 12. the MDC on all the NYPD systems is muted at the repeater. ever now and again a non muted ID slips thru.

in regards to the "voice change" it goes on several times a tour. central usually only sits on 1 division for a little while and then they rotate. Voice change and tour change are 2 different things.

 

[62Truck]

yes at the change of tour to differentiate from one tour to the other units will go over the air as 43Adam day or 43 Adam 4 by 12. the MDC on all the NYPD systems is muted at the repeater. ever now and again a non muted ID slips thru.

in regards to the "voice change" it goes on several times a tour. central usually only sits on 1 division for a little while and then they rotate. Voice change and tour change are 2 different things.

If the MDC is muted at the repeaters, do the IDs still show up on the dispatchers consoles? and why did they decide to have it muted at the repeater instead of at the individual radio it self, last time I was down in the city I noticed that they are also using MODAT.

 

[ff026]

i dont think that the dispatchers console display's the ID's but i know that the radio shop can look up the ID's. I dont know if they have a logger or what. I do know of someone who got in trouble for an unauthorized transmission and it was tracked from his ID from the thru the radio shop. I have never heard MODAT used on any NYPD radio.

 

[W3MOT]

If the MDC is muted at the repeaters, do the IDs still show up on the dispatchers consoles? and why did they decide to have it muted at the repeater instead of at the individual radio it self, last time I was down in the city I noticed that they are also using MODAT.

Not sure if they can decode the ID's on the console, but the ID's on the radios go through (sometimes). With the way the system is designed, the repeater is supposed to mute the MDC so it doesn't get 'annoying', while the ID's will still show up on the receiving radios. But whoever programmed the repeater is stupid and set up the DOS mute percentage too high and the data doesn't always go over the air. Every once in a blue moon you'll see the ID pop up though. Blocking out MDC on the repeater just totally defeats the purpose of programming MDC into the transmitters. Idiots.

As far as Modat, the only time I've ever heard that used was on recordings of LAPD (I believe when they were analog. Yeeeaaaarrrrsssssss ago!)

 

[captmfa7112]

Actually the techs at Motorola and Radio Repair knew what they were doing and are far from "idiots." The systems and id's are operating properly. The IDs are decoded when the techs play the recording back. The officers and portables were never meant to decode the MDC id's and therefore there is no reason to allow the full id through the repeater.
Granted there are the exceptions when an id will not be caught by the DOS muter but these are few and somewhat far between.

As for MODAT, the probability of hearing MODAT on any radio used by any city employee is slim to none. NYPD and FDNY-EMS use MDC-1200. FDNY uses the TPS signaling for fireground communications and none on their borough frequencies.

Hope this clears up any misunderstandings...

 

[SKYNET156]

What do they use to Mute the MDC DOS? do they do that in the radio's CPS/RSS or is it done to the repeater?

 

[SKYNET156]

i am also wondering what TPS signaling is?

 

[ff026]

What do they use to Mute the MDC DOS? do they do that in the radio's CPS/RSS or is it done to the repeater?

Its done at the "Voter Room" in queens where all of the receivers come in to the comparators. It is muted so it can be logged at radio repair.

i am also wondering what TPS signaling is?

I have only heard it called "Fire ground Communications System" by Motorola, Basically it is P25 signalling in analog. with normal MDC1200 signalling you only get 4 digits for an ID, with FCS you get more i cant remember right now how many it is, as i dont have a codeplug in front of me now.

 

[W3MOT]

Its done at the "Voter Room" in queens where all of the receivers come in to the comparators. It is muted so it can be logged at radio repair.

lol... DOS isn't muted so it can be logged. There's only one reason why DOS is muted. Because people think it's annoying.

If they were so determined to 'log' every MDC ID, then every radio on their system would have it enabled. You will very rarely hear MDC on NYPD unless it's on SOD. Other than that, I rarely hear it on any of the precincts.

 

[W2SJW]

why is it that they leave the repeaters in hangtime for so long?

This has noting to do with the new UHF repeaters. The existing VHF system works as follows (and the credit goes to the fdnewyork.com website for this):

"Our radio system (for now) is a 2 channel simplex voting receiver type. We transmit on one frequency and receive on another. This gives us in the Central Office the ability to transmit and receive at the same time. The frequency you listen to is the output of the Central Office. In order for you to hear what we hear, we have to turn on the "mixer".This device injects our receive audio into the transmitter. When a unit wants to give us sensitive information they ask us to turn it off, thus preventing anyone listening from hearing the transmission. It's not fool-proof though. Anyone within range of the low power transceiver of the unit can monitor the output frequency of the mobile and hear the message."

They hold the mixer engaged often when they are expecting more replies form units in the field, etc...

 

[FrankRaffa]

Hang time

The radio console used to be a Centracomm 2 pictured below:

The mixer button is above the red PTT. Being the most used buttons they tend to wear out. More often than not, however, we just miss the button and it gets left on.

Last year the powers that be (none of which are dispatchers by the way) decided to go with a new interface; a poorly designed touch screen PC. The screen is mounted far back and very high off the desk so you have to use a mouse. The mixer control is only a few pixels larger than the cursor so occasionally we miss the target.

That's the yin and yang of it.

 

[captmfa7112]

lol... DOS isn't muted so it can be logged. There's only one reason why DOS is muted. Because people think it's annoying.

Actually ff026 is correct, every division along with all the citywides are recorded and the id's are recorded as well. This is why after hearing an unauthorized transmission you will hear a supervisor ask central for a time check. This is logged and then given to the folks at radio repair who play the recording back at the given time and retrieve the radio's id. Yes, the whole purpose of DOS muting is to reduce the amount of "noise" over the system caused by signaling.

If they were so determined to 'log' every MDC ID, then every radio on their system would have it enabled. You will very rarely hear MDC on NYPD unless it's on SOD. Other than that, I rarely hear it on any of the precincts.

I'm not sure what division you are listening to but every portable radio issued by the Police Department has a unique MDC id. This includes and is not limited to the Vertex and the Saber radios. They all emit the signaling at the release of the PTT. Trust me, the radio I'm assigned does it.
As for the radios which do not, well they can be considered authorized but unauthorized. Meaning that either the radio was installed after the car was put in service or someone at radio repair did the guys/girls a favor and added a car radio in their vehicle. As I said, they are officers using the radio, but the radio is not logged in the system.

 

[ff026]

Almost all NYPD divisions are using MDC-1200 as CAPTFMA7112 stated, if they are not they will be soon.

 

[Rudy3145]

The radio console used to be a Centracomm 2 pictured below:

The mixer button is above the red PTT. Being the most used buttons they tend to wear out. More often than not, however, we just miss the button and it gets left on.

Last year the powers that be (none of which are dispatchers by the way) decided to go with a new interface; a poorly designed touch screen PC. The screen is mounted far back and very high off the desk so you have to use a mouse. The mixer control is only a few pixels larger than the cursor so occasionally we miss the target.

That's the yin and yang of it.

great pic frank. they dont make them like they used to. i think the older equipment worked better than the new stuff (sounded better too). any chance of getting some pics of the new consoles/screens?