Adventures with Bridgecom - A tale of frustration!

[N4GIX]

I have bought many radios from Bridgecom over the years and have always received prompt, courteous service, and zero problems with any of the equipment...

...until recently. I bought an AT-878UVIII+ and SkyBridge last month. While it will communicate via the SkyBridge well, it simply will not work at all on any of the available DMR repeaters in the Chicagoland area, including the UHF and VHF W9CTO repeaters less than 7 air miles from my QTH! All I get when trying is a repeating audio message "Repeater is out of range"

Mind you, this happens even when standing less than 1000' from the bloody tower!

My AT-868 has no problem reaching any of the available repeaters, unlike the AT-878. I have had to PAY twice so far returning the darn thing to Bridgecom as defective, @ ~$25 per trip. The first time they claimed the radio was defective and sent me a new one, but only replaced the radio and serialized box. It took less than five minutes before again hearing that annoying audio error message.

So I returned that as well. This time they claimed it was a bad antenna, like I was so stupid I hadn't already tried my 868's antenna! Understand folks that this isn't my first rodeo. I once owned a GE Service Station in South Texas, so I've had a many decades of LMR experience. In addition, I have two CS-800 UHF mobile radios, a CS800D mobile, a Motorola XPR-5550, an XPR7550, and an even dozen various brands of DMR HT's all of which work perfectly, so it's not like I'm too stupid to handle an AT-878UVIII+ bit of gear!

So, at this juncture I feel I have no option other than to request a refund for this defective bit of electronics. So ultimately I'll be $75 in the hole for this rediculous imbroglio. This is W9CTO's tower. The receive antenna is at the very top, the transmit antenna is 60' below the top. Standing there at the main gate I supposedly cannot connect with the repeaters?

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Being that DMR is TDMA there is a transmit to receive timing element of the technology. Could it be that while the AT-878UVIII+ is optimized to the hot spot, the TX-RX timing is not conducive to actual repeaters ? Maybe there is a setting unique to hot spots that needs to be changed?

 

[K4EET]

Hi Bill @N4GIX, as you stated in the beginning:

I have bought many radios from Bridgecom over the years and have always received prompt, courteous service, and zero problems with any of the equipment... <snip>

So you know that BridgeCom Systems is a good company to deal with. I too have the AnyTone AT-D878UVII Plus (not an 878UVIII as you stated - that is a future model ) with a SkyBridge Plus. My SkyBridge Plus had the DVMEGA board die a slow death the first week (increasing BER until there was no RF reception at all) and BridgeCom promptly replaced the board. That cost me $27 to send the hotspot back to BridgeCom Systems which they really ought to cover. So much for having to pay for return shipping. Now back to your repeater issue...

I have no doubt of your ability to program the radio correctly. I do have a question though. When operating through the SkyBridge Plus hotspot to BrandMeister Parrot, what are you seeing for Loss and BER on the Pi-Star Digital Voice Dashboard under Gateway Activity when transmitting? Also, what does it show for your transmission under Local RF Activity for Mode, Target, Src (Source), BER and RSSI?

Next, as a sanity check, could you somehow post the Codeplug file with an RDT extension? I would like to take a look at the programming for the repeater. After all, four eyes are better than two when troubleshooting. I doubt if the technician at BridgeCom looked at your programming. Its a long shot but I don't want to overlook anything.

Finally, is there another DMR repeater that you could try accessing even if you had to drive a little ways to be within range of it? Also, how about the 2 meter and 70 centimeter analog FM repeaters? Are they working as expected?

That is what I would want to know initially in a remote troubleshooting scenario. Thanks for your time and assistance!

73, Dave K4EET

 

[khaytsus]

I saw someone, somewhere, post they found their 878 was defective and outputting a mere few miliwatts of power on one band, like one of the finals was shot. Have you tried a power meter on FM mode on yours? Can't do it on DMR, the readings will jump all over, but should put out the same power on FM as DMR.

Even if it's putting out a few milliwatts that might be enough for the hotspot in the same room.

The radio going back and forth is a bit crazy though, that sucks.

 

[N4GIX]

I have no doubt of your ability to program the radio correctly. I do have a question though. When operating through the SkyBridge Plus hotspot to BrandMeister Parrot, what are you seeing for Loss and BER on the Pi-Star Digital Voice Dashboard under Gateway Activity when transmitting? Also, what does it show for your transmission under Local RF Activity for Mode, Target, Src (Source), BER and RSSI?

Here is a screenshot of the "Dashboard":

Next, as a sanity check, could you somehow post the Codeplug file with an RDT extension? I would like to take a look at the programming for the repeater. After all, four eyes are better than two when troubleshooting. I doubt if the technician at BridgeCom looked at your programming. Its a long shot but I don't want to overlook anything.

Unfortunately even zipped the file is too large for the system to handle. I'll have to post a direct link to my Dropbox folder:
Anytone 878 codeplug

Finally, is there another DMR repeater that you could try accessing even if you had to drive a little ways to be within range of it? Also, how about the 2 meter and 70 centimeter analog FM repeaters? Are they working as expected?

Analog repeaters are working 100% when compared to my AT-868 under the same conditions. Well, other than that the AT-878 is band locked, so I cannot program it for GMRS frequencies.
FWIW, analog is putting out a solid 8 watts on Turbo, 5 watts on High. On digital, output is so low it won't even cause the needle to flicker. It should show about half the analog power on peaks.

There is another DMR repeater south of me about 10 miles. I'll program at least one TG and give it a try and report back.

 

[N4GIX]

I've just checked the Crown Point repeater I mentioned above and get the same darned "Repeater is out of range" error message. Here is the footprint of that repeater. I'm located in the Hammond area circled in red:

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

(3) Auto Roaming settings
Set the fixed time waiting interval to begin automatic roaming when the
repeater cannot be found, roaming will begin at the end of this time.
Fixed Time Set: The roaming will be started at preset fixed time or set to off.
Start Roaming:
Fixed Time: Starts timed roaming
Out of Range: The roaming will be started when the radio cannot find a
repeater - "The repeater is out of range" icon will appear 3 times, then the
radio will perform roaming one time, and return to roaming off automatically.

(4) Repeater Check - Off / On
Turn on this function will allow the radio to check the repeater status, the
"Repeater is out of range" icon shows if the repeater is not in range.

(9) TxPow ALC (Automatic Level Control)
With the“TxPow ALC” function activated (On), while receiving extremely
strong signal, the TX power will automatically reduce the level of the TX
Power proportionally to the strength of the RX signal

 

[N4GIX]

Thanks for the information, but "Roaming" is not a factor on this radio as it is turned off.

 

[K4EET]

Hey Bill. Just wanted to check in and let you know thanks for the completing the homework assignment. I just got the RDT file downloaded after finally figuring out how to use Dropbox. Us old fossils are not totally on board with all of these websites. The brain can't handle that much information. LOL!

After church and lunch tomorrow I'll have time to look at the RDT file. If somebody gets to it before me and has comments, my feelings will not be hurt. Sorry I have not had the time to do it sooner for you.

One other thing that you could try as a sanity check is a DMR distance test back to the SkyBridge Plus hotspot using the the DMR Parrot talkgroup with the 868 and 878 (same model antennas) as you walk down your street using the high power setting (not turbo). You should be able to get about the same talkback from both HTs. It's not scientific but at least it is another sanity check. One thing we could all use is a $16,350 (MSRP) Freedom Communications R8000C Service Monitor with the ability to test TETRA, APCO P25, DMR, NXDN, and analog radios across the entire RF spectrum from 250 kHz – 3 GHz so we could test our toys. LOL!

What I do not know is what kind of test equipment BridgeCom Systems has to thoroughly test their products. That is why I am trying to come up with some sanity checks to compare apples to apples (somewhat) to find any major discrepancies. Anybody reading this thread that has any other bright ideas, please chime in. I am not the smartest cookie on the planet!

I'll check back in hopefully later tomorrow afternoon. Have a blessed Sunday! 73, Dave K4EET

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Thanks for the information, but "Roaming" is not a factor on this radio as it is turned off.

(9) TxPow ALC (Automatic Level Control)
With the“TxPow ALC” function activated (On), while receiving extremely
strong signal, the TX power will automatically reduce the level of the TX
Power proportionally to the strength of the RX signal

 

[K4EET]

Bill, just a quick observation this morning before I leave for church. On the DMR repeater programming, are you sure that the public can access the repeater on Slot 1? Around here, most repeaters are accessed on Slot 2. Try making that one change and see what happens. Of course, if your 868 is accessing the repeater on Slot 1, then that is probably not the answer. I'll take a closer look at the whole file this afternoon.

73, Dave K4EET

 

[popnokick]

A repeater admin can assign either Slot 1 or Slot 2 to any talkgroup. Most repeaters typically make use of both Slot 1 and Slot 2, but for different TGs to maximize the DMR capabilities of the repeater. For any given repeater it's crucial to know which slots are carrying which TGs.

 

[K4EET]

A repeater admin can assign either Slot 1 or Slot 2 to any talkgroup. Most repeaters typically make use of both Slot 1 and Slot 2, but for different TGs to maximize the DMR capabilities of the repeater. For any given repeater it's crucial to know which slots are carrying which TGs.

Correct. What we are trying to figure out is why he is getting a "Repeater Out of Range" message. By simply switching to Slot 2, which may carry the talkgroup he is looking for, the issue may be resolved. Just looking for things to try. His 868 works fine. The 878 does not...

 

[N4GIX]

Bill, just a quick observation this morning before I leave for church. On the DMR repeater programming, are you sure that the public can access the repeater on Slot 1? Around here, most repeaters are accessed on Slot 2. Try making that one change and see what happens. Of course, if your 868 is accessing the repeater on Slot 1, then that is probably not the answer. I'll take a closer look at the whole file this afternoon.

Dave, I've even had the owner/trustee of the repeaters check over my work. He can spot nothing wrong. Both the VHF and UHF repeaters are set up identically, with both Slot 1 and Slot 2 populated with many available TGs, most of which are tagged as PTT only. Only a handful on both Slots are "Always On", notably of course True Local, Local 1 and Local 2. True Local is for his repeater only, whereas Local 1 and Local 2 are area wide, meaning all the repeaters in the Chicagoland area.

I can assure you that programming is not a trivial task with 38 available TGs to set up... per repeater!

 

[alcahuete]

I can assure you that programming is not a trivial task with 38 available TGs to set up... per repeater!

Off topic, but the "cool" thing to do these days is just program 2 channels per repeater...one for each timeslot. Then enter the talkgroup you want manually. Of course, that means you have to memorize the talkgroup numbers, but it saves a TON of time with programming.


What I don't understand is how this can keep happening with multiple 878s. I would be shocked if all these radios are bad. Not saying it isn't a possibility, but it would be astounding odds.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

N4GIX
Can you get through to Bridgecom's "5 start" tech support or their Facebook page?

AnyTone 878UVII Plus

Hey there, ham radio operator. We know it can be frustrating when you finally get your radio set up only to key up and hear the static of a dead repeater when you try to get on the air. Are you ready to start making contacts? Learn more.

www.bridgecomsystems.com

They could be shipping a bunch of bad radios, off frequency, bad FW code, wrong part, etc and you are being a beta tester. I sure as hell would be mad to pay for another shipping charge to be told it was a bad antenna. Bridgecom sure likes ti hype up how easy it is to make these radios to work, yet you need to watch a video university!

 

[K4EET]

Bill @N4GIX, I've looked the codeplug file over with a fine tooth comb and only found two things unrelated to the problem and perhaps the way that you wanted them anyway. Those two unrelated items were:

• Optional Setting --> GPS/Ranging --> Distance Unit --> Metric?
• Optional Setting --> Auto repeater --> Auto Repeater1(VHF) --> Off?

The first was just whether you wanted metric units or imperial units. The second is probably an error from the factory or BridgeCom Systems.

Sooooooo... Were you able to do the distance test from the hotspot? I am plumb out of ideas my friend. I would call Tech Support perhaps and ask for Lucas Burns and plead with him to help figure out what is going on.

Let us know if anything new surfaces.

73, Dave K4EET

 

[N4GIX]

I didn't mention that I've had extensive email correspondence with one of the repair techs at Bridgecom. He's pretty much thrown his hands in the air and is apparently trying to blame me for this problem. He claims that he was able to program a DMR repeater in St. Louis and had no problems getting in from his bench in their metal building! Somehow I can't believe that claim.

No, I haven't had the time or patience to make a stroll around the block with my 868 and 878 going through the SkyBridge.

Their claims about easily getting "on the air" is demonstrably true, as long as one can be satisfied with only working through the SkyBridge, since they do program those channels and TGs and test it via the SkyBridge before shipment, assuming you bought the whole package to begin with.

Oh yes, I also forgot to mention that I even tried connecting the 878 to my UHF antenna (52' height) with no success whatsoever.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

N4GIX. I couldnt help but notice you have a second active callsign N9GIX in your name (still wrapping my head around this). Is it possible that the DMR repeater database has you with wrong callsign?

 

[N4GIX]

Not too likely since they have different DMR IDs. N4GIX belonged to my dad (now SK). The FCC hasn't acted on the notice yet apparently.

N9GIX is my actual call. We've been sharing his internet address for years and I simply don't wish to change it because there are too many accounts to change/update. I do have my own email address n9gix@arrl.net but that frankly is just a mail forwarding gimmick.

However, your suggestion did prompt me to change the DMR ID and test. No joy still, darn it! Just for S&G I shot the 868's code plug and got the same negative results. Back to square one now. Tomorrow I'm going to request another RMA and ask a full refund. I'm tired of fiddling with this waste of time and money. The new features aren't enough in any case; GPS, APRS, and BT PTT button. Meh!