MrVelvet
Member
No rush Jay, thanks for taking the time.
AFRRCS - Alberta First Responders' Radio Communication System - INFO HERE
This should do it. EDIT: In case it's not obvious, this file is for the Win500 software package.
Note: Could not include the simplex channels in the 799-805 region (or what we presume to be simplex channels) because of GRE's elimination of the top part of the band in their receivers. (I know there are other threads on that issue on RR - basically everything from 796.5 upward to 806 is removed, and people believe it is because GRE has an inherent birdie/intermod/harmonic problem in that part of the receiver.)
If you so desire, you can copy the TSYS objects from this file and paste them into your own Win500 configuration. Don't forget to either copy the wildcards (tedious task) or re-create them yourself (about the same amount of hassle, IMO).
Note: Could not include the simplex channels in the 799-805 region (or what we presume to be simplex channels) because of GRE's elimination of the top part of the band in their receivers. (I know there are other threads on that issue on RR - basically everything from 796.5 upward to 806 is removed, and people believe it is because GRE has an inherent birdie/intermod/harmonic problem in that part of the receiver.)
If you so desire, you can copy the TSYS objects from this file and paste them into your own Win500 configuration. Don't forget to either copy the wildcards (tedious task) or re-create them yourself (about the same amount of hassle, IMO).
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Interesting piece. But: "Calgary Days rodeo"? :huh: :lol:
Jay why let a few facts get in the way of a good Harris yarn
They also used the old provincial slogan that was thrown out recently making way to the rememberr to breathe one.
One of these day I'm going to have to take in that Calgary Days rodeo. Will it be listed in TAFL by this licensee
They also used the old provincial slogan that was thrown out recently making way to the rememberr to breathe one.One of these day I'm going to have to take in that Calgary Days rodeo. Will it be listed in TAFL by this licensee
omrail
Member
It was in the spring. That was done in the spring of 2011
Come on Jay, "Calgary.... it known throughout North America for its Calgary Days rodeo" they should of mention that world famous NHL hockey team "Calgary hockey team " and the mountains near by "Calgary big rocks"
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TAFL has been updated, so the wiki (and Google Map) now has been too.
Licenses have been granted for a bunch of the LMR-South sites (all except 5 including the 2 Edmonton JB sites showing up in LMR-South) and so the Virtual License details are now available. Interesting stuff in there, such as site IDs (not conforming to radio standards - evidently internal business references only) and permitted wattages (120-150W ERP).
The mobile frequencies in the 805 range were also put to paper and clarified. The "799" and "769" are 'blanket' licenses - if you look at the virtual license, it actually says "799 to 805" and "769 to 775" inclusive in each field. Little quirk of the TAFL there. Otherwise, those freqs are now listed as "mobile-to-mobile" use, one license at 30W (presumably for mobiles) and one license at 5W.
Motorola Solutions also has a 700MHz frequency licensed now - only one, or at least "pending" license. 775.23125 is in the TAFL as being permitted in "various Southern Alberta" locations. The previous 805 frequency they were licensed for (or had applied for) is no longer in the TAFL.
There's also a bunch more MW sites listed in the Calgary area.
Time to update my scanners
Licenses have been granted for a bunch of the LMR-South sites (all except 5 including the 2 Edmonton JB sites showing up in LMR-South) and so the Virtual License details are now available. Interesting stuff in there, such as site IDs (not conforming to radio standards - evidently internal business references only) and permitted wattages (120-150W ERP).
The mobile frequencies in the 805 range were also put to paper and clarified. The "799" and "769" are 'blanket' licenses - if you look at the virtual license, it actually says "799 to 805" and "769 to 775" inclusive in each field. Little quirk of the TAFL there. Otherwise, those freqs are now listed as "mobile-to-mobile" use, one license at 30W (presumably for mobiles) and one license at 5W.
Motorola Solutions also has a 700MHz frequency licensed now - only one, or at least "pending" license. 775.23125 is in the TAFL as being permitted in "various Southern Alberta" locations. The previous 805 frequency they were licensed for (or had applied for) is no longer in the TAFL.
There's also a bunch more MW sites listed in the Calgary area.
Time to update my scanners
Looks like they are still working on getting sites. either a previous contract has ended or they are running behind:
AB-2011-05906: AFRRCS Site Acquisition Consultant
The AFRRCS Program includes projects for the governance, construction, and operation of a province wide P25 digital trunked radio communications system, which will provide two way voice and data radio communications for use by Alberta First Responder Agencies.
Within the AFRRCS Program structure, the consultant will lead the site acquisition team to secure tower space on existing towers and secure real estate for the construction of new telecommunication towers in support of the project construction schedule. Post construction, contracts for tower space and real estate will be transitioned to the AFRRCS operations and maintenance team for on-going contract management.
AB-2011-05906: AFRRCS Site Acquisition Consultant
The AFRRCS Program includes projects for the governance, construction, and operation of a province wide P25 digital trunked radio communications system, which will provide two way voice and data radio communications for use by Alberta First Responder Agencies.
Within the AFRRCS Program structure, the consultant will lead the site acquisition team to secure tower space on existing towers and secure real estate for the construction of new telecommunication towers in support of the project construction schedule. Post construction, contracts for tower space and real estate will be transitioned to the AFRRCS operations and maintenance team for on-going contract management.
scannerboy01
Member
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Does anyone know where the sites will be built? Would most be built in farmer's fields, in towns and cities or both?
Does anyone know where the sites will be built? Would most be built in farmer's fields, in towns and cities or both?
The sites showing up so far are mostly at existing sites already in use by other telecoms operations, including TELUS, RCMP, various fire/emergency services, water co-ops, etc. Some are in rural areas, some are co-located on existing towers in towns, and some are on urban buildings.
The wiki article and the Google Maps link within have some indications of where the sites we know of so far are. I would suspect an "acquisition consultant" will be talking with various entities that own existing tower sites and trying to get agreement to co-locate AFRRCS on them.
The wiki article and the Google Maps link within have some indications of where the sites we know of so far are. I would suspect an "acquisition consultant" will be talking with various entities that own existing tower sites and trying to get agreement to co-locate AFRRCS on them.
scannerboy01
Member
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I guess it does make sense to build the AFRRCS sites at places that already have radio communication equipment at them. Is it correct that the eastern half of the province sites will be constructed in spring/summer 2012 and be operational in 2013?
I guess it does make sense to build the AFRRCS sites at places that already have radio communication equipment at them. Is it correct that the eastern half of the province sites will be constructed in spring/summer 2012 and be operational in 2013?
That's what the project website is insinuating, though not everyone is convinced of that....
scannerboy01
Member
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We'll just have to wait for more information from the Solicitor General of Public Security and the Industry Canada database.
We'll just have to wait for more information from the Solicitor General of Public Security and the Industry Canada database.
What type of range will this 700mhz system have for portables? As it stands now the RCMP portables are sketchy at best in rural areas. Will the tower system be more comprehensive than the current RC system? OR will 700mhz have sufficent range to provide coverage.
We run EMS on idens via telus (800mhz?, not sure) and the coverage is adequate, still a lot of dead areas in poorly covered cell tower areas.
What will fire services require to access this system? Agreement? Allocated talkgroup? Hardware such as portables and mobiles are not cheap! (Espically for the harris radios and any p25 motos).
Will fire services who join this network be able to decommision their existing repeaters? Use for backup, etc? I am sure the conventional VHF FD channels will still provide valuable simplex coverage for fireground tac use.
We run EMS on idens via telus (800mhz?, not sure) and the coverage is adequate, still a lot of dead areas in poorly covered cell tower areas.
What will fire services require to access this system? Agreement? Allocated talkgroup? Hardware such as portables and mobiles are not cheap! (Espically for the harris radios and any p25 motos).
Will fire services who join this network be able to decommision their existing repeaters? Use for backup, etc? I am sure the conventional VHF FD channels will still provide valuable simplex coverage for fireground tac use.
scannerboy01
Member
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If small town volunteer fire departments want to join AFRRCS, they will have to do a lot of fundraising to allow every member to have a portable radio since P25 radios are quite costly.
If small town volunteer fire departments want to join AFRRCS, they will have to do a lot of fundraising to allow every member to have a portable radio since P25 radios are quite costly.
I have a few quote requests out for portables and mobiles. However when you consider the possibilities of this sustem and putting cost before potential life safety, inter agency communications, mutual aid, disaster ops, and overall general interoperability, $1-2k for a radio isn't bad. Lots of grants out there, ESPically the federal government joint emergency preparedness grant which can be directly applied to communications.
kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
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Where to start. iDEN is on 800MHz commercial specrtum. PACS (RCMP) was designed for mobile coverage, NOT portable coverage, repeaters have been added over time to enhance coverage as needed. Not sure of the exact spec but it calls for somewhere around 400+/- sites, my un-educated guess is it will end up being 500+ sites depending on type of coverage spec'd (portable-on belt vs mobile) TMI has well north of 500 sites for cellular coverage and look at all the holes in the CDMA/3g coverage.
I will be suprised if many fire departments transition to ther system, first it is P25, second, with portable radios costing 2.5K+ per radio, I just do not see small departments going to it. My guess is that most rural departments will stay on V/Uhf for many many many many years
I really do not understand why SGPS did not ask IC to (re)assign 470-480Mhz for this project and just reuse the existing MDMRS/TANGO sites, replacing the 403-430Mhz antennae with T-band tuned antennae. I have visited about 13 TCI Ra-Re sites and EVERY one of them had either TANGO or MDMRS installed, many of the sites had both.
But I digress, it is going to be a long and painful process getting AFRRCS operational.
dean83 said:
Where to start. iDEN is on 800MHz commercial specrtum. PACS (RCMP) was designed for mobile coverage, NOT portable coverage, repeaters have been added over time to enhance coverage as needed. Not sure of the exact spec but it calls for somewhere around 400+/- sites, my un-educated guess is it will end up being 500+ sites depending on type of coverage spec'd (portable-on belt vs mobile) TMI has well north of 500 sites for cellular coverage and look at all the holes in the CDMA/3g coverage.
I will be suprised if many fire departments transition to ther system, first it is P25, second, with portable radios costing 2.5K+ per radio, I just do not see small departments going to it. My guess is that most rural departments will stay on V/Uhf for many many many many years
I really do not understand why SGPS did not ask IC to (re)assign 470-480Mhz for this project and just reuse the existing MDMRS/TANGO sites, replacing the 403-430Mhz antennae with T-band tuned antennae. I have visited about 13 TCI Ra-Re sites and EVERY one of them had either TANGO or MDMRS installed, many of the sites had both.
But I digress, it is going to be a long and painful process getting AFRRCS operational.
The initial word is 400 sites - I don't disagree that it may require more. It remains to be seen what will come of it.
They're still working out the end user agreements as far as I know, but I would expect you would need to be licensed for the frequencies, and they will have system administrators who will help provision talkgroups. Bring your own radios to the party and you're set.
Radios are definitely not cheap, but what I've done with my department is purchase 700-ready mobiles for each of my trucks over the last few years as budget allows. Early in 2012 (possibly as soon as the beginning of FY12) I will have the last truck outfitted with radios capable of operating on a 700 P25 system.
As for portables, I'm still going to presentations by vendors to pick my preferred brand, but I'm pretty sure that grant monies will help me out where I need it. Odds are good I won't convert my entire fleet in one fell swoop - but my existing trunking radios are only 800 Smartzone capable, so they will have to be replaced completely when the new system comes in. I'm contemplating things like my officers (chiefs/captains/lt's etc) getting multi-band portables first, and the rest of the crews using our existing batch of radios on our current UHF conventional repeaters. Once we have enough radios to migrate in a few years, we will probably do so.
I don't see any reason why you couldn't either dump your existing infrastructure or keep it, as your whims prevail. My town's preference is to keep our UHF conventional infrastructure for disaster services purposes and as a fallback. I know of other places (including some large ones) where similar plans are in place. Having said that, I do know there is a fairly large contingent in my area that is intent on migrating to the new provincial network. This includes all three kinds of public safety services. Rumors that nobody is going to use the new system are false.
I haven't read it in ages - and it may not necessarily apply in whole any more - but somewhere in the original RFP I do recall seeing talk of mandating that the system interfaces properly with "conventional VHF mutual aid frequencies" for both aircraft and ground crews. I would take that to mean Provincial Ambulance as well as Firetac.
My understanding is that the project's leaders will have a governance committee working on policy and procedures eventually, when it becomes closer to the time when the system will be available for use.
