Alberta Forestry P25

[ve6sar]

Does anyone know if Alberta Forestry has actually received licensing for and has sites on the air using P25?

Their 2016 Pilot's handbook claims they have mix mode sites active now, I tried verifying this via Industry Canada, but well as usual the Federal Government's IT depart dropped the ball and the search function is all messed up.

Thanks
Sean

 

[Jay911]

I have not heard of anything in this regard at all.

I know that some of the AFRRCS VHF sites are supposed to be co-located with Firenet sites in various places around the province. AFAIK there's very few VHF sites which are live at this point. Furthermore Forestry wasn't supposed to be in on the AFRRCS system - Conservation Officers yes, Forestry no.

 

[ve6sar]

I have not heard of anything in this regard at all.

I know that some of the AFRRCS VHF sites are supposed to be co-located with Firenet sites in various places around the province. AFAIK there's very few VHF sites which are live at this point. Furthermore Forestry wasn't supposed to be in on the AFRRCS system - Conservation Officers yes, Forestry no.

The long term plan as I understand it was always to convert Firenet to mixed mode P25.

 

[thundermedic]

According to the pilots handbook posted on the AB gov site, the fixed wing pilots only need a VHF FM radio, at least for this year

 

[thundermedic]

http://wildfire.alberta.ca/wildfire-operations/documents/PilotsHandbook-Mar22-2016.pdf

 

[ve6sar]

Page 16 of the 2016 Pilot's Handbook has the following:
"3. Preferred - Transport Canada approved VHF-FM transceiver (similar model but not limited to TDFM 136B programmable transceiver or equivalent) capable of programming and retaining 99 or more channels e of operating on 138.0 – 174.0 MHz transmit-and-receive with full access to CTCSS sub-audible tones, Network Access Codes (NAC) and be switchable by the operator to any of the 32 standard CTCSS tones or one of the 4096 NAC codes and capable of narrow banding and a minimum of one guard channel.

Note: Various Firenet sites throughout the province have been upgraded to digital Project 25 compliant. The sites are backward compatible being that they can operate in Analog Narrowband or Digital P25 modes. This providing greater flexibility to the Firenet radio system offering multimode communication along with increased coverage in certain cases, increased traffic loading and segregation and the potential for better interoperability. The P25 feature at this time will only be utilized where radio traffic is heavy and isolation is required and only at sites that have the capability. The Digital Project 25 compliant frequencies will be used on an as needed basis for the 2016 season. When digital frequencies are required, those aircraft equipped with digital capability will be the preferred hired. Digital Project 25 compliant VHF-FM transceivers will be required equipment for the 2017 fire season."

So this year the way I read this is P25 is not required, but if they decide to use a digital channel and you don't have digital you're released. Then next year it will be required for all aircraft.

FYI P25 aircraft radios are $20k each.....

 

[thundermedic]

I keep wondering where the AB gov gets their money for outfitting their fleet.

I know that with AFRRCS they wanted all the Air MEDEvac planes to be outfitted and will be putting that into the next tender that goes out. I guess they wanted SRD to be on them as well. I'm disappointed there isn't the radio card included in the handbook.

 

[ve6sar]

I think the P25 for Forestry has something to do with the wildfire suppression agreement with the US, I know all long term contract helicopters have needed the digital for a few years in case of export to the US.

I haven't dug up the agreement to see for sure.

Sean

 

[Jay911]

The existing Firenet layout in the RRDB is built off a previous year's handbook - could be as early as 2013 as I recall. But it should be good as far as accuracy goes.

I was going to say that I'd wager that the dual mode sites would be the AFRRCS colos, but I wonder if that won't be the opposite. As in, the P25 sites will be the ones that don't have AFRRCS with them.

It could even be that AFRRCS is not involved at all, who knows.

SAR - I know how you feel about costs. I'm trying to figure out how to outfit a 40 member fire department with both VHF and 700 P25 in order to use AFRRCS. I need to win the US powerball, I think.

 

[ve6sar]

Most of the FD's I know up here aren't going with AFRRCS as it won't even begin to cover their response areas. They don't see the point of spending big dollars to buy into AFRRCS. Most are going Mototrbo mixed mode VHF on their own sites.

As for Forestry they've been warning helicopter operators for about six years but wouldn't put anything in writing until now.

Hopefully next week I'll be getting an updated copy of the radio card at our spring meeting. I'll advise if there's any changes on it from the last few years.

 

[thundermedic]

I have mine from a few years ago in High Level, if you get one email it to me and I will update the RRDB

 

[ve6sar]

I have mine from a few years ago in High Level, if you get one email it to me and I will update the RRDB

Will do.

 

[thundermedic]

I was searching the internet today and I found the pilots handbook from 2012 that has all the frequencies and sites listed with maps for anyone's interest (starting on page 95)

http://www.intranet.air-spray.ca/uploads/2/7/5/7/27572375/pilotshandbook-2012.pdf

 

[electronician]

I have not heard of anything in this regard at all.

I know that some of the AFRRCS VHF sites are supposed to be co-located with Firenet sites in various places around the province. AFAIK there's very few VHF sites which are live at this point. Furthermore Forestry wasn't supposed to be in on the AFRRCS system - Conservation Officers yes, Forestry no.

I wonder if now that all the conversation officers have been transferred back from Solicitor General and Public Security to Environment and Parks (split from Agriculture Forestry from the former ESRD) they will be using firenet instead of AFRRCS?

 

[thundermedic]

I wonder if now that all the conversation officers have been transferred back from Solicitor General and Public Security to Environment and Parks (split from Agriculture Forestry from the former ESRD) they will be using firenet instead of AFRRCS?

I doubt it, in the Kananaskis area the FIRENET repeaters are primarily for contact back to the Calgary Fire Base. The Conservation Officers cover areas outside the Fire Protection Divisions (the only place FIRENET is guaranteed to cover) and work in Calgary, and farther to the east. It would make much more sense to go to AFRRCS to allow them to work their partners in LE like RCMP and City Police with the linked TG's

 

[VE6BRW]

Yes if anyone has more info on their P25 system (ie: freq's, NAC codes, etc) I can start to monitor and see whats happening. are they going to use Firenet for their P25???

 

[ve6sar]

My understanding is we won't see wide spread use of P25 with Firenet until at least next year, but being a government organization, probably longer.

What I do know is next year it will be mandatory for any helicopters working with Lands and Agriculture (Forestry) to have P25 capability before hire. Whether they use it that's another story USFS has had the P25 requirement for over a decade and they still primarily use analog in most areas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[thundermedic]

On the AFRRCS approved radio list released today they added an aeronautical category. I wonder if in a few years they won't incorporate AFRRCS and FireNET together. If they added waited a few years, they could replace the FireNET sites with AFRRCS repeaters to allow more interoperability with local fire departments and increase the range of the AFRRCS system.

 

[kayn1n32008]

On the AFRRCS approved radio list released today they added an aeronautical category. I wonder if in a few years they won't incorporate AFRRCS and FireNET together. If they added waited a few years, they could replace the FireNET sites with AFRRCS repeaters to allow more interoperability with local fire departments and increase the range of the AFRRCS system.

They might. This radio is the only airborn option for RCMP/EPS/CPS/STARS/HERO/any other orginization that wants/needs AFRRCS access while airborn in order to stay legal with Transport Canada rules. Technisonic radio actually contains Motorola APX/XTS portables interfaced in their chassis. Not sure what model it is but you can have 4 APX dualband radios. Very pricey radios...

 

[Jay911]

They might. This radio is the only airborn option for RCMP/EPS/CPS/STARS/HERO/any other orginization that wants/needs AFRRCS access while airborn in order to stay legal with Transport Canada rules. Technisonic radio actually contains Motorola APX/XTS portables interfaced in their chassis. Not sure what model it is but you can have 4 APX dualband radios. Very pricey radios...

The dual-band APX7500 ran me about $6600 a couple years ago when I bought it for our rescue truck. There are rumors that there will be an APX8500 (may already be out; I haven't exactly been "shopping" lately) which is the mobile version of the tri-band APX8000, so it's worth (at least in Motorola's eyes) that much more.

I recently spoke with an FD in southern Alberta who is migrating to AFRRCS and bought APX7000XEs which, with accessories, came out to about $8500 apiece.