Analog Trunk question ( newbie still learning )

[mortoma61]

Have had a Uniden SDS200 going on a month or so. I live in Utah where most of the public safety is on the vast and ginormous Utah Communication Authority. And it covers a lot of ground with a lot of sites. It's a Motorola analog system but can users can make talkgroups digital and even encrypted if they want to. I have noticed that I can receive a given department ( lets say Utah Sheriff talkgroups ) and a talkgroup can be received on my scanner from one site such as "Utah County Simulcast" and maybe the next time I hear it on one called "Lake IR". Then I'll hear it on a yet another site the next time. Sometimes I noticed that if I start hearing a transmission on a given talk group and a certain site and twist my function knob to go up or down so it starts scanning again it very well might stop on the last part of the same transmission ( same dispatcher/officers ) on a different site. I've done it many times as an experiment.

Now with some sites the interference and strength of the signal is terrible to horrible while others might sound great and maybe some in between. Now my big question is can I do a permanent avoid on the really terrible sites and not miss anything?? Are all transmissions necessarily always broadcast from multiple sites? I'm still learning this trunking stuff but when it's a huge, vast and complex trunk like UCA, I need all the help I can get. Thanks for any advice you can give me.

 

[gcopter1]

Given what you've stated, go ahead and try the permanent avoid on the poor sites. Just be advised that, your reception may vary if you move around so, give/assign those sites a Quick Key so that you can turn them on or off as needed.

 

[mortoma61]

Cool, I'll try that. If I had two radios it would be easy to tell if I missed anything. I am in fact wanting to buy a SDS100 to go with my 200 but that might be a ways off as I'm not a zillionaire. But eventually it might happen. My current scanner, being an SDS200 is one I don't plan to move around. It's home is permanently on my computer desk, hooked up to my desktop PC. If I get a SDS100 that will travel with me.

 

[mortoma61]

Another thing reducing sites would do is reduce the scanning loop cycle time. The favorite file that I listen to the most (which has UCA plus a bit more) has a scanning loop time of 19 seconds!! It was hard to time it but I happened to be up at 4:00AM one morning so I found an period when my scanner went all the way through the scan loop of everything I scan without stopping on anything and that's how long it took using a stopwatch to time it. So if I can reduce sites and slowly milk away stuff that is not active or not interesting enough that will help too. Right now reducing my loop time is a biggie!!

 

[Spitfire8520]

Now my big question is can I do a permanent avoid on the really terrible sites and not miss anything?? Are all transmissions necessarily always broadcast from multiple sites?

It would probably help to be aware of the concept of affiliation, especially on a large networked multisite system. In most cases, a site will carry a talkgroup as long as a radio is actively using that talkgroup on that site.

As a rough example, you may find that the Sheriff Dispatch can be heard countywide on all of the sites because there are probably many radios on that talkgroup across the entire county. If two deputies in the far side of the county uses a Car to Car talkgroup, then it is very likely that only a few sites near them will have that talkgroup.

It will mostly be a trade-off of being able to reliably listen a few major talkgroups versus trying to hear every talkgroup.

 

[eaf1956]

You could set your scanner range to zero. That will reduce a lot. Sometimes changing tower range settings are needed. Just takes time to get things right.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[mortoma61]

You could set your scanner range to zero. That will reduce a lot. Sometimes changing tower range settings are needed. Just takes time to get things right.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Ok, I think I see what you mean. There are about 60 or 70 sites listed statwide for UTA sites, with lots, maybe most of them being too far away to hear. Currently it looks like when my scanners is scanning through it is checking about all 70 of them. So if I reduce my range that will stop it from scanning through the sites that are far away and couldn't be heard anyway? Is that what's going on?

 

[mortoma61]

Another question I have besides the ones in post #7 is how does the range set for the whole scanner affect things versus changing the range of a particular site? I have changed my scanner range a few times and figured out early on that this does not affect conventional frequencies at all. Seems to be only related to trunks. But I still don't understand how both ranges I mentioned above would affect each other. I found that it's easy to change the range of an given site in the ARC536PRO software I have, easier than using Sentinel. So I changed the range of St. George Simulcast from 25.0 miles to only 5.0 miles to see what would happen. St. George Simulcast is one of the ones that has the weaker signals and terrible interference. So what's is this range change going to do? Possibly taking the range of it down to only 5.0 miles in this case is the same as avoiding all together maybe? Not hearing it now I noticed. But I'll give it a while.

 

[eaf1956]

Another question I have besides the ones in post #7 is how does the range set for the whole scanner affect things versus changing the range of a particular site? I have changed my scanner range a few times and figured out early on that this does not affect conventional frequencies at all. Seems to be only related to trunks. But I still don't understand how both ranges I mentioned above would affect each other. I found that it's easy to change the range of an given site in the ARC536PRO software I have, easier than using Sentinel. So I changed the range of St. George Simulcast from 25.0 miles to only 5.0 miles to see what would happen. St. George Simulcast is one of the ones that has the weaker signals and terrible interference. So what's is this range change going to do?

That would depend on if you enabled location control on conventional channels.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[mortoma61]

Just got something come in on the St. George Simulcast after all, so 5 miles must still be in range of the tower from my house? Still don't understand the range thing as I grew up with the old scanners before trunking. And you were either close enough to a signal to hear it or you weren't. Those were simpler times, you didn't set range on a scanner in the old days.

 

[hiegtx]

Just got something come in on the St. George Simulcast after all, so 5 miles must still be in range of the tower from my house? Still don't understand the range thing as I grew up with the old scanners before trunking. And you were either close enough to a signal to hear it or you weren't. Those were simpler times, you didn't set range on a scanner in the old days.

If you are not using location control for a specific Favorites list, range has no effect at all

But, if you are using range, either on a favorites list, or using the full database, the systems, talkgroups, and conventional systems you hear are affected. The actual range is based upon the range you set in the scanner, for your location. If using zip code for location, the scanner uses the approximate center of the zip code. Or, you can enter your actual latitude and longitude, which would be more accurate, especially in a more rural area, where a specific zip code could cover quite a large area, perhaps an entire county.

The range for each site (on a trunk system), as well as for Departments (whether conventional frequencies or talkgroups for a specific agency) are set in the database. You can modify these in Sentinel if in a Favorites list.

The range used when determining whether a site, or department, in in range (enabled) or out of range (disabled and not beingscanned) is actually the sum of the range you set, and the range for the specific site or department. For a more complete explanation, with graphics for illustration, see this page: How it Works: Location, Location, Location

 

[mortoma61]

I was unhappy with the Zip Code location so I put in my exact GPS location in longitude and latitude a long time ago as the zip code was not precise enough. But the question for me is: Does the scanner default to what you call "location control"? Where do you turn that on or off at? I'll try to find it but if I don't I'll hope you reply to tell me. The owner's manual is almost useless for explaining anything in detail. I don't use Sentinel much except for downloading the latest database and firmware. BuTel ARC536PRO software is more useful for me for most things and is also more user-friendly.

 

[mortoma61]

Ok, I found where you set it. It was not in 'Set Your Location' in the menu. It was in 'Manage Favorites' and it's per each favorite you have. Not for all favorites at once. Mine was set to off for the favorite I use the most. That explains why the range change to St. George Simulcast did nothing for me. Thanks for pointing this out for me.

This also greatly reduced my scan loop time as it now does not scan through every site in Utah. This really helps!!

 

[eaf1956]

Ok, I found where you set it. It was not in 'Set Your Location' in the menu. It was in 'Manage Favorites' and it's per each favorite you have. Not for all favorites at once. Mine was set to off for the favorite I use the most. That explains why the range change to St. George Simulcast did nothing for me. Thanks for pointing this out for me.

This also greatly reduced my scan loop time as it now does not scan through every site in Utah. This really helps!!

That is kinda the point of location based scanning. Why scan stuff you can't hear anyway.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[mortoma61]

That is kinda the point of location based scanning. Why scan stuff you can't hear anyway.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Well, if you were getting back into scanning ( for me it's just in the last month ) for the first time in about 35 plus years, you would be just as ignorant as I on the subject. I thank you for your previous posts that helped me but this post from you comes across as a little smart-azz. My last scanner was a Bearcat 250 that I sold in May 1980!! And I was probably older than you are now back then too.

For one thing I knew about the place where you set your range a long time ago, but the terrible owners manual along with the scattered info in these forums it was not clear that you had to also set the 'Use Location Control" for each favorite ( if you want location control ) in addition. That has never been a fact out in the clear open, kind of buried in the mud. I figured the location control was default as long as you set your range and then you were 'bam-done'. That's why I post here, to learn. I'm not stupid, you just can't know everything instantaneously in the course of a month. These forums are not always friendly to people learning the latest ropes. If Uniden had a more comprehensive manual, that would help too.

 

[chief21]

You could also create a Favorites List that includes your target system, agencies and talk groups of interest, and just the local sites, rather than numerous sites that you will never hear. It would likely scan much faster.

 

[phask]

For me, in a nutshell, use location control ONLY when mobile or in an unknown/temporary area. In a fixed location, or in a location where I want everything set and not to change, do not use location.

Now everyone does it differently, but that works for me.

One can make it as complicated or as simple as one wants.

Also - a quick place to see if location is on or off is in the favorite section of your profile.