Another Open Sky Article

[KB8QDM]

Database Article

Who didn't see this one coming?

Two significant points from the latest news article in the database

Oakland County, MI Harris Open Sky

Presently, the County is financially supporting a review of the Troy, Madison Heights and Royal Oak dispatch operations with the possibility of consolidating these three dispatch operations into one dispatch center. Other potential consolidations of dispatch centers are under consideration as well.

In other words, we're going to force/coerce/badger you into switching over to this system, then we're going to start shutting down your dispatch centers until we get two or three in the county to handle everything. LBP gets the best of both worlds: he can continue to thumb his nose at Lansing by not using a proven, cheaper system, and he gets to start dictating how the local governments (cities, villages and townships) are going to operate. Next prediction, all the employees left at those consolidated dispatch centers get absorbed by the county and become sheriff's dept employees.

A letter of transmittal dated April 5, 2010 and an attached report dated March 28,
2010 has been produced which details the business and fiscal issues facing the CLEMIS Operating Fund. On March 31, 2010, the Radio Oversight Committee on a 7 in favor / 6 opposed vote approved a resolution for consideration by the Board of Commissioners in raising the telephone operating surcharge from the $.18 per line, as defined, level to $.28 (would raise an additional $2,050,000 in revenues). In theory, the added revenues would serve to mitigate the CLEMIS Operating Fund by alleviating the Fund’s costs in certain area – to the extent that they can be under the State statutes.

In other words, we're going to go back and sock the taxpayers with an increased surcharge to pay for this disaster.

 

[RayAir]

I hear Troy fire from time to time on 154.235 is that the patches or minitors? .but you can here alot of comms both sides .why is it they do not want general public to monitor?

Paging won't work on Open Sky so they tone out on VHF to the Minitor pagers. Since all FF's also have a text pager, the call is also sent out on that as well as any private info.

It's not Troy Fire that doesn't want you to hear. The fact that the system can't be monitored was propagated as a selling point by M/A-Com. A Troy FF told me that they (M/A-Com) told them this many times in the initial training on how to use this new system. He also told me that compared to before they have "a lot more channels". I'm guessing that means they still have all their old VHF and however many on the Open Sky system.

 

[gpp10x]

Who didn't see this one coming

"In other words, we're going to force/coerce/badger you into switching over to this system, then we're going to start shutting down your dispatch centers until we get two or three in the county to handle everything. LBP gets the best of both worlds: he can continue to thumb his nose at Lansing by not using a proven, cheaper system, and he gets to start dictating how the local governments (cities, villages and townships) are going to operate. Next prediction, all the employees left at those consolidated dispatch centers get absorbed by the county and become sheriff's dept employees."


Considering the financial deficits many cities are running consolidation of publlic safety dispatching is probably going to happen in many places regardless of the radio system. I think part of the plan when Oakland County was planning the radio system upgrade was to reduce the number of psap's. The question to ask is how many of those dispatchers will actually keep their jobs with consolidation as FNNM1062 pointed out Rochester Hills is going to lay off their dispatchers when Oakland County takes over dispatching services. Also as its been pointed out before the other system (MPSCS) isn't any cheaper. Another thing the news release points out is that not all deadspots have been identified yet. Oh boy, more money to spend on the system instead of hiring additional health inspectors to enforce the upcoming smoking ban.

 

[trashcan]

It's not Troy Fire that doesn't want you to hear. The fact that the system can't be monitored was propagated as a selling point by M/A-Com. A Troy FF told me that they (M/A-Com) told them this many times in the initial training on how to use this new system. He also told me that compared to before they have "a lot more channels". I'm guessing that means they still have all their old VHF and however many on the Open Sky system.[/QUOTE]


I dont know if I misunderstood but below you state it was a major selling point that it could not be monitored that it made it sound like Troy fire does not want anyone to monitor them with a Scanner.

Troy Fire has been on Open Sky for a while. Here's what they are doing: They issue their FF's two pagers, one Minitor and one alphanumeric pager. If you miss the call over the Minitor the call is put over the text pagers. I got this info from a Troy FF that was in one of my classes.

He also told me the fact that the system cannot be monitored with a scanner was a major selling and talking point when they were trained on the Open Sky system.

 

[RayAir]

It's not Troy Fire that doesn't want you to hear. The fact that the system can't be monitored was propagated as a selling point by M/A-Com. A Troy FF told me that they (M/A-Com) told them this many times in the initial training on how to use this new system. He also told me that compared to before they have "a lot more channels". I'm guessing that means they still have all their old VHF and however many on the Open Sky system.

I dont know if I misunderstood but below you state it was a major selling point that it could not be monitored that it made it sound like Troy fire does not want anyone to monitor them with a Scanner.[/QUOTE]

That is not the reason Troy Fire selected Open Sky. It wasn't Troy Fire's decision to go with M/A-Com as the vendor. It was the county that chose M/A-Com. Troy went to it because all public safety is supposed to go to it.

 

[pjbracing]

".... It was the county that chose M/A-Com. Troy went to it because all public safety is supposed to go to it."

Just because someone runs into a roaring inferno with no protective gear doesn't mean anyone else should do it!

 

[RayAir]

".... It was the county that chose M/A-Com. Troy went to it because all public safety is supposed to go to it."

Just because someone runs into a roaring inferno with no protective gear doesn't mean anyone else should do it!

Well, what's done is done. We will be stuck with this system for another 10 years at least (maybe a lot more).It will be real interesting to see how many don't go to it because of all the general problems. You know, like taking 8 years of trying to get it to work.

 

[KB8QDM]

Considering the financial deficits many cities are running consolidation of publlic safety dispatching is probably going to happen in many places regardless of the radio system.

That's fine, if the local government unit (in this case, the cities of Troy, Royal Oak and Madison Heights) choose to go that route. The impression I got from the news release is that the county is funding (in other words, encouraging) the study. That tells me that the county is the driving force behind this, not the cities.

When I was a taxpayer in White Lake, I paid taxes to fund the township police department, which includes dispatch services. If it had been cheaper to contract that service to the county, and that would have lowered taxes, I'd have been all for it. But, when I called the police department, I expected to get a White Lake dispatcher on the phone.

I think part of the plan when Oakland County was planning the radio system upgrade was to reduce the number of psap's.

Having followed the system since it's birth, and even back when the old 800MHz legacy system was started (which had the same plans as OpenSky-one system for the entire county), the plan was never to reduce the number of PSAPs. A side benefit maybe, but never part of the plan. IMO, that would require the forming of a 911 consortium similar to what Genesee and Lapeer counties use, something that would give the subscribers a voice in how the system they use operates.

The question to ask is how many of those dispatchers will actually keep their jobs with consolidation as FNNM1062 pointed out Rochester Hills is going to lay off their dispatchers when Oakland County takes over dispatching services.

Most likely, none. Or, they will be given the opportunity to apply and test as a communications agent for the sheriff's department and start all over again. I don't know any RHFD dispatchers personally, but I've heard some of those voices for a lot of years. I know of at least two dispatchers at White Lake who were there when I started on the FD 20 years ago, and they're still there.

Also as its been pointed out before the other system (MPSCS) isn't any cheaper.

I'll give in on the cost of the two, don't know what I was thinking, other than leveraging the buying power of the state (how many thousand radios they purchase), against the county and their hundreds. Either way, the state system is proven, and working. Both systems were initially proposed at about the same time. The MPSCS has been up and running successfully for about 5 years now, while Oakland is about halfway through their roll-out, and they're still chasing bugs.

 

[gpp10x]

I had it in the back of my mind that any displaced dispatchers may have the opportunity to get jobs with OCSD as dispatchers, just didn't post it.
I agree with you that Oakland County is the driving force behind the study but considering the projected budget deficits of many cities someone in local government will think, "Hey thats a good idea!"

I agree with your statement about leveraging buying power but I think the depts that join MPSCS have to buy their own radios. I don't know if they piggy back on bids with the state to buy radios but I'm going to guess rdale can provide a comment regarding that.

 

[JoeSig]

Oh Boy - Open Sky.

I was always hoping that the technology for OS would flounder and fade away with all the law suits, trouble getting this up and running. If we knew one half of the actual amount of $'s spent to hold on this long and force the system to work - we would have been more vocal as tax payers. I have to believe that the inability to monitor is a huge selling point to the communities.

 

[OsloViking1975]

Scary isn't it. I understand certain things have to be encrypted, but a totally unmonitorable system. Next thing you know MCDonald drive throughs headsets well be next. Not that I care to listen to somebodies order, just pointing out something.