Antenna Recommendations

[tadpole207]

Hello

I’ve been shopping antennas for the past few days for my mobile rig, Anytone AT 778 UV. I have so many choices I have stalled my decision. Hoping someone has sage advice and recommendations for the 2 and 70 while also allowing GMRS when plugged into my GMRS radio.
I saw this one on Amazon

Amazon.com

Need car/mag mount with easy uninstall for car wash, take into house etc. any help is appreciated.

 

[popnokick]

The crazy additional elements on the HYS antenna on Amazon that you linked are completely unnecessary. A single element 19" whip works on both 2M and 70cm quite well. It should also give you good receive performance on GMRS, and reasonable (not perfect) GMRS transmit capability. Anything else (more gain, longer, coils, 5/8 wave, etc.) is going to be too narrow in bandwidth to handle GMRS and the ham bands... and is unlikely to be usable on 2 Meters, 70cM, and GMRS. A 19" whip is a "do it all" single antenna solution that is only slightly compromised on GMRS. Example: Laird Connectivity A150 You can attach it to a magnetic mount and scratch up your vehicle, as well as crush the coax cable coming through the door / window.

 

[tadpole207]

Thanks.
"You can attach it to a magnetic mount and scratch up your vehicle, as well as crush the coax cable coming through the door / window."

you mean this is a bad idea, even if i ran the cable properly into the car? Do you mean i should get a permanent mount for the car? I sense irony....

 

[popnokick]

Your sense of irony is leading you in the right direction. I understand the utility of mag mounts, and have used them on rental vehicles, wife's car (!) etc. many times. Longer term result is scratching / "hazing" of the vehicle's finish due to the micro-fine unseen grit that gets under the magnet. And you can keep from crushing the cable by running it "properly" into the car... which usually results in a path for water to flow into the vehicle. Many of the mag mount antennas use RG-174 coax, which is high signal loss for VHF and UHF. This means you are having to run RG58 or larger coax from the antenna into the vehicle somehow. And in addition to more signal it also equates to more water. Occasional use? Sure. Long term? Ill-advised.

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, beware of the gimmick antennas. They'll get you with outlandish claims and low prices.

There are some good antennas that will do what you want. 1/4 wave VHF whip at 18 inches will get you excellent performance on 2 meter band with lots of usable bandwidth to give excellent receive performance across the VHF band. It'll act as 3/4 wave antenna on UHF, including up around the GMRS band.
Drawback is that the radiation pattern on UHF starts to launch signals up above the horizon, which is useful if you are working repeaters, but can work against you a bit for simplex. Not a show stopper, but it's not a perfect solution, either.

There are some multiband antennas that will probably give you want you want. We can make some suggestions if you tell us more about the goal you are searching for.

As for mag mounts, there's an ongoing battle about wether they scratch up paint or not. If you are -really- careful, they may not. The bigger issue is getting that coax to your radio. That means running it through a window or door.
Windows will pinch the cable and result in a change of characteristic impedance. There will be some movement (unless you duct tape it down across the roof) that will result in damage to the outer jacket. Damage to the outer jacket will let moisture in and corrode the cable. It'll also let moisture inside the car, damage the weather stripping long term, and just looks amateurish.

A lot of people love to hate on the permanent NMO mount since you actually have to drill a hole to install the mount, but that hate is misguided. If you are serious about radio, you want things to look professional and work well. Cutting corners/taking the easy way out always comes with drawbacks. Decide if those drawbacks are worth it and you'll have your answer.

 

[west-pac]

@tadpole207 since you're asking about dualband Amateur Radio antennas, you'll likely get more feedback if you have a Moderator move this thread to the Amateur Radio Antenna forum.

Edit: Currently you're in the Scanner/Receiver Antennas forum.

 

[tadpole207]

Thanks all. I do plan on this long term, so I do plan on mounting permanently. The idea for mag mount was to try out temporarily so I can move the radio from the to inside the house and hook up to power to use as a base until I decide and save up for a good permanent home transceiver.

for now, I plan on using it while mobile (hunting, 4x4 etc) as well as connecting to clubs etc. going to a club meeting next month and just got my call sign so I can now officially get on the net.



so I have this antenna now for my HTs but I don’t plan on using it for the 25watt Anytone.

Amazon.com

so basically looking at the moment for an antenna that works while mobile (easy to disconnect and bring inside)but then also as a home set up until I buy a full home rig. I’m learning about tuning and SWR as well as why certain antennas work on certain frequencies.

As always any direction and advise is much appreciated

 

[mmckenna]

so basically looking at the moment for an antenna that works while mobile (easy to disconnect and bring inside)but then also as a home set up until I buy a full home rig. I’m learning about tuning and SWR as well as why certain antennas work on certain frequencies.

As always any direction and advise is much appreciated

Trying to make a base antenna work as mobile, or a mobile antenna work as a base, ain't going to work out as well as you want.

Get a dedicated mobile antenna. Go with an NMO base, NMO's are the industry standard for antennas mounts, and you'll have lots of options.
The mag mount if fine if that's what you want to use. Don't skimp on antennas, coax or the mount. The antenna is the most important part of your radio system, and you want to invest money there. I'd rather have a cheap radio and an expensive antenna over a cheap antenna and an expensive radio.

When it comes to a base antenna, get a true base antenna with good coaxial cable. Nothing will make a bigger difference in performance than a good antenna.

 

[mmckenna]

so I have this antenna now for my HTs but I don’t plan on using it for the 25watt Anytone.

Amazon.com

Bingfu, RG-174, there's a lot not to like about that antenna from my experience. The price might seem attractive, but you'll want something better. RG-174 has a lot of loss. It's benefit is that it's small and is easy to route through the window/door. The cable isn't doing you any favors.
I know budgets are a real thing, and we all have limits, but you don't want to skimp on the antenna. It may be a good antenna for getting your feet wet, but plan on upgrading when your budget permits. You'll be much happier.

 

[tadpole207]

@mmckenna Thanks, once again you rock. Understood, and i didn't think of it that way. I guess for now, i can use the Bingfu for my HT when mobile, if it was your money, which antenna would you buy for

1. Home:
2. Car:

My power supply is coming in tomorrow and i plan on eventually hooking up and amp as well. I guess at this moment, i will use the radio more in the house, so i guess home would be most important. As far as mounts, since i wont be going with a mag base, what do i do about ground plane?

 

[popnokick]

if it was your money, which antenna would you buy for

1. Home:
2. Car:

My power supply is coming in tomorrow and i plan on eventually hooking up and amp as well. I guess at this moment, i will use the radio more in the house, so i guess home would be most important. As far as mounts, since i wont be going with a mag base, what do i do about ground plane?

Home: Diamond X50
Car: If you live in hilly or mountainous terrain a simple quarter-wave 19" whip will work well. Like this -
PulseLarsen NMOQ88C Antenna Mobile Single Other, NMOQ88C
If you need something that is shorter and will flex easily when it hits the top sill of the garage entrance -
COMET-NCG SBB-1NMO Antenna Mobile Dual Band 2m-70cm, SBB1NMO
Both of the above are dual-band (2M / 70cM) and NMO mounts. I used the Comet for years on my Jeep since I have a low garage door clearance and the tip of the antenna smacked the door sill every time in / out.
A separate ground plane is unnecessary for mobile antennas... they use the vehicle's body for the ground plane.

 

[tadpole207]

Noted, thank you. So here is a curve ball…
On the diamond x-5-0, there are 4 types, and 2 of them are tuned to 2 and 70 with different connectors

—X50A-UHF Female (SO-239. —X50NA- Connector: Type N Female

I know connections and adapters can cause signal loss, which one would hook up to the Anytone? It appears that the Anytone has the so-239 but I can’t confirm because I don’t have it yet nor is it posted online in any manual.
Also, at the moment I live in an apartment while we look for a place to buy, so I’m not sure I can put that antenna up without causing some issues. Any ideas on how to get creative? I am on the top floor at least.
Thanks again.

 

[popnokick]

Now that you've gotten a handle on the mobile antenna, a discussion on a base antenna to use in an apartment is a whole 'nother question. And belongs in a different RR forum (as this thread does, since it has nothing to do with Scanners / Receiver antennas. So that you don't end up dual posting, I asked that the entire thread be moved to Amateur Radio Antennas.... where you'll get many more qualified responses.

 

[tadpole207]

Perfect. I do not double post.
Pulse vs comet- is one better?
Thx

 

[tweiss3]

Noted, thank you. So here is a curve ball…
On the diamond x-5-0, there are 4 types, and 2 of them are tuned to 2 and 70 with different connectors

—X50A-UHF Female (SO-239. —X50NA- Connector: Type N Female

I know connections and adapters can cause signal loss, which one would hook up to the Anytone? It appears that the Anytone has the so-239 but I can’t confirm because I don’t have it yet nor is it posted online in any manual.
Also, at the moment I live in an apartment while we look for a place to buy, so I’m not sure I can put that antenna up without causing some issues. Any ideas on how to get creative? I am on the top floor at least.
Thanks again.

Yes, the "X50" comes in two connector types. SO-239 and N. I like N connectors because they have less loss and are more water tight, but that depends on what tools you have. If you are buying pre-bought coax cables, its going to be easier to go SO-239. I'm certain your anytone is SO-239.

As for the 4 versions, 2 are for the ham bands (2m and 70cm) one with each connector type, while the other two are for frequencies above ham in the 2m and 70cm bands for commercial frequencies, one with each connector type.

 

[popnokick]

Now that we are in the correct Forum for this, a more detailed response -
- Regarding the Larsen (Pulse) vs Comet: You will read here on RR "Comet is cheap ham junk. Avoid it." As well as "Larsen has been used on my vehicle for the last 30 years, and on every fire truck in the county for 100 years. That's what you want." The advantage to using an NMO mount is you can use EITHER antenna whenever you feel like it. Want a shorter, more flexible antenna... just get the NMO version of the Comet. Problem with (don't like it, broke off, whatever...) then just swap it for a Larsen that will still be on the vehicle in 30 years when it goes to the scrapyard. Want a crazy long antenna with gobs of gain? NP.... just get the NMO version of it and switch it out at will. However, DON'T forget to take the 3 foot long super gain antenna off the roof before you drive into the garage. After carefully changing my antenna for a year, I forgot once and whacked it into the garage sill. My rock-solid NMO mount was so well secured to the roof that hitting the top of the garage entrance with the antenna caused the roof of the car to be ripped open like a tunafish can. $800 of body shop work to repair it. Stupid is as stupid does?
- Regarding apartment living and a Diamond X50 or other antenna: First question: Can you put anything on the roof or outdoors at all (balcony, air conditioner in window, etc)? If not, replies here need to focus on what you can use indoors.

 

[tadpole207]

Thanks again all. @popnokick i do not have access to anything outside the window i can anything on. I did however by this antenna, figuring i could drape it out of the window: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9VV1SO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So go NMO for the car- that is solved. As for the connection, is it better to just use the SO-239 or will putting an adapter on the end to accept the N connector be a better solution?

Trying to learn antenna theory, but i'm sure that will take a few weeks. I would like to be up and running on the anytone this week.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks again all. @popnokick i do not have access to anything outside the window i can anything on. I did however by this antenna, figuring i could drape it out of the window: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N9VV1SO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Sweet Jebus! $70 bucks for the antenna is W-A-Y out of line. That's about $10 in parts, if that.

There are a lot of good tutorials on how to make a "roll up J-pole" online. It's not hard to do, and it'll save you $60 that you can spend better elsewhere. Also, look at 1/4 wave ground plane, or any other easy to home brew ham radio antenna you find on the net. It's not hard to do and it teaches you a lot more than just buying stuff on Amazon.

Problem, though, is having antennas like that inside an apartment, or even right outside the window.
-Antennas work best when they are up high and in the clear. May not be possible with your installation, but don't spend $70 on an antenna to find out.
-Antennas that close to you and all the others in the building means it's going to suck up every bit of RF interference it can. Again, find a way to get it away from the apartements.
-Transmitting antennas that close to TV's, phone wiring, cable TV, FIRE ALARM WIRING, whatever else is in the walls is going to be a problem waiting to happen. You need to get it away from the building if you can. Keying up your radio and setting off the fire alarm/smoke alarms, screwing up the TV's in the building, etc. is going to give you a lot of headaches you don't want.

But, with some careful pondering, you can make it work. Keep power output low. See if a temporary installation is possible. Some take a 5 gallon bucket from Home Depot, stick a piece of pipe in it, and fill it up with rocks or concrete. Instant antenna mast. Mount a decent antenna on it, run the coax through your window, Boom, Bob's your uncle and you're on the air. When you are done tickling the airwaves, take the whole thing inside and stick it in the closet.

So go NMO for the car- that is solved. As for the connection, is it better to just use the SO-239 or will putting an adapter on the end to accept the N connector be a better solution?

Popnokick brings up some good points. Find an antenna that works for you and go with it. No one really cares what brand you use. If you are asking advice, you'll get a ton. I'm one of those he speaks of that will direct you to the professional grade antennas. Yep, I have 30 year old Larsen antennas that are still working like new. All the cheap Chinese ham antennas I bought years ago long since failed/broke/fell apart. Your choice, though.

Trying to learn antenna theory, but i'm sure that will take a few weeks. I would like to be up and running on the anytone this week.

Rushing your antenna installation will lead to disappointment. It's the most important part of your system. Yeah, get on the air as soon as you want, but you may be disappointed if you rush this and end up with a cheap antenna in a less than ideal installation. That'll sometimes really take the wind out of your sails.

 

[tadpole207]

Pulse Larsen- 19$ but i understand that it has out lasted some chinese antenna's- that can be more expensive at times. So @mmckenna this is the antenna you refer to for 30 years? PulseLarsen NMOQ88C Antenna Mobile Single Other, NMOQ88C

and

any good places to learn more about antennas?

and 1 more:

when ordering the antenna's, the do not come with coax do they/ Do i need to buy anything else when i get the larsen?

 

[mmckenna]

Pulse Larsen- 19$ but i understand that it has out lasted some chinese antenna's- that can be more expensive at times. So @mmckenna this is the antenna you refer to for 30 years? PulseLarsen NMOQ88C Antenna Mobile Single Other, NMOQ88C

Pulse/Larsen is a good brand. I've been using those for 3 decades personally, and 25 years at work. Never let me down.
I've recently started trying out EM Wave antennas. I bought a few to try out on my personal trucks and just spec'd them for installs on our new police vehicles.
There are other good brands: Laird, PCTel, and StiCo.

The antenna you linked to is a "field tunable" antenna. It's the NMO quarter wave base with a long whip. You would need to trim the whip to the correct length. It'll work well on the VHF band as a quarter wave antenna. On UHF, it'll work fairly well as a 3/4 wavelength antenna. Both will tune up well, however on the UHF band, the radiation pattern of the antenna starts shooting the UHF signals up above the horizon. That -may- impact performance. I've used VHF 1/4 wave antennas on UHF quite a few times with good results, but that's based on my location and application.

You -may- find that a dedicated dual band antenna might perform a bit better.

Larsen NMO2/70B Premium Larsen 2m/70cm Amateur Ham Radio Antenna Dual Band

Covering the 144/440 bands. Features 3.8 dB gain on VHF and 5.2 dB on UHF. Use with a dual band radio or two separate radios. Watts: 100, Whip Length 34 3/4".

theantennafarm.com

While not designed for the ham radio bands, this one can be a good performer if you are looking for 2 meter/70 centimeter band as well as GMRS

Larsen NMO2/70B Premium Larsen 2m/70cm Amateur Ham Radio Antenna Dual Band

Covering the 144/440 bands. Features 3.8 dB gain on VHF and 5.2 dB on UHF. Use with a dual band radio or two separate radios. Watts: 100, Whip Length 34 3/4".

theantennafarm.com

Just some suggestions. There are other options, but that can get you started.

any good places to learn more about antennas?

Antenna Compendium Volume 1: ARRL Inc.: 9780872590199: Amazon.com: Books

Antenna Compendium Volume 1 [ARRL Inc.] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Antenna Compendium Volume 1

www.amazon.com

when ordering the antenna's, the do not come with coax do they/ Do i need to buy anything else when i get the larsen?

Right, unless you are specifically buying an entire antenna package, or some of the magnetic mount/antenna kits, you'll buy everything separately.
For the NMO base antennas, you'll need to buy an NMO mount with long enough cable to reach your radio and either with the correct connector installed, or install your own connector.

Which one depends on what your mobile installation will be like. I think you mentioned a magnet mount as your first step. That's a good option, but eventually you'll probably want a permanent installation.
Here's a good basic mag mount with NMO and a UHF connector to match your radio:

PCTEL Maxrad RG Magnetic Mount PL-259 Installed For NMO Type Antenna

Magnetic Mount PL-259 Installed For NMO Type Antenna

theantennafarm.com

The nice thing about NMO mounts, is that you can swap mounts/antennas between manufacturers easily.