Any Big Dish Satellite Guys Here?

[zzdiesel]

Hope this is OK to post here in this forum. Anyone here still into big dish C-Band and/or KU-Band? I was in it from 1992-2000; when I switched over to the small dish systems. I've been sorry of it ever since because I miss the wild feeds & back hauls & etc on the big dish. I'm going to get back in either late this month or early next. I just found out this week that the last great recievers the 4D-TV General Instruments systems have been discontinued. I think some new ones are left in warehouses & etc. I think getting them serviced would be about like getting a GRE scanner worked on since they went out. I found some forums, but they all suggest that I get into the FTA systems. I don't believe I'd be satisfied with FTA. I can't find a lot that's on it; especially wild network, news & direct sports feeds.

I'm not getting this as a replacement to cable. My wife & kids couldn't handle it at all. It's going to be my toy. I hope I can get some opinions & other feedback here.

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

My family had a C-band dish back in the mid to late 80's. I wish I had a dual C/Ku band system. Maybe someday, if they're still available in the future.

 

[Rt169Radio]

Are you talking about those really big satellite TV type dishes? Were those actually a early type of satellite TV?

 

[WB4CS]

I haven't been active in C/Ku satellite since the mid-1990s. Not long ago I thought about picking one up as well, and did quite a bit of research.

Someone with more experience should correct me, but I believe that a large number of the wild feeds have gone to digital formats instead of the old analog format used back in the day. I imagine it has to do with feeding stations with a digital HDTV program. I'm unsure if those would be in-the-clear or encrypted.

Checking out this website: Programming Center | 4DTV Programming
They have a disclaimer that several channels including HGTV, Encore, Starz, and History channel are no longer available. It would seem that programming packages for 4D-TV are just about extinct.

I imagine there are still some wild feeds and foreign programming out there, but for me personally it didn't look like there's enough programming out there to justify the expense of buying the equipment.

 

[zzdiesel]

Thanks guys. I can't believe that old times was better in Satellite than new times. I reckon it's about the same as our scanner hobby.

Like I say I want the stuff that most wouldn't be interested in. I don't think it'll ever be distinct or that may be wishful thinking. I think the breaking news stuff & sports coverage is liable to be there for years to come.

W4BCS, I'm not concerned with VC-2 programming unless I really find something on the cheap. I'd like to have an old generation VC board. I hear some stuff is still scrambled but runs in open key. If it comes with a new board I'll likely buy one channel so I can get previews & etc. I'm now disabled & near bedridden. So I should enjoy it.

 

[Darth_vader]

Problem is, your hardware's just too old. Videocipher II (VC2) is a nearly obsolete analogue system that's rarely, if ever, used these days. There's not a lot of analogue stuff available nowdays, and those who think they can fire up their old NTSC Houston Tracker and just pick up where they left off 15 years ago WILL be disappointed and have a lot of catching up to do. Almost everything these days is either DVBS (scrambled or otherwise) or Digicipher II* (scrambled or otherwise). That said, there is still quite a bit of stuff to be found in the clear on satellites, but you have to have the proper hardware to use it.

I am currently running a Pansat 9200HD (just the base model) DVB/ATSC receiver, 3' fibreglass Channel Master dish somebody on one of the other boards I used to use gave me and a cheap no-name Chinese Ku-only LNB I got off Amazon almost 10 years ago. I don't have my motor any more, thus my dish is currently fixed on Galaxy 19 (mainly so I can get Al-Jazeera and the other foreign services.)

Personally, I wouldn't just rely solely on IC/FTA satellite and only suggest using it as a supplement to your existing ATSC or in-the-clear QAM services, although I know people who do just that. Nine times out of ten you're not going to find your local programming on satellite, unless you're fortunate enough to be in one of the markets that has simulcasts on Galaxy 16.

By the way, if you want feeds you should pay attention to G16 Ku, since there are feeds all over that bird.

So, what you want is:
DVB-S receiver (or preferrably a combination DVB/ATSC/QAM IRD) that can do blind-scan
DVBS2 upgrade if it's available for your receiver, so you can use the in-the-clear HD services like the CW feeds on Galaxy 17 C
DVR (optional, though some of the better receivers, like the Pansat 9200 and the Viewsat Pro, have provisions for this on a "bring-your-own-drive" basis)
DISEQC-compatible dual-band linear LNB that can work with data signals
DISEQC-compatible motor/positioner (which would also be a tremendous help to you, zz, since then you won't have to go outside and reposition it by hand)

If you use Echostar DiSH Net, you might also be able to use your card with your receiver if it has CAM support, since DN use DVB-S with Nagra 3 scrambling, but you might have to reflash the firmware on your receiver to make it work. You'll also need a circular LNB since DBS systems don't use the standard linear polarisation the conventional services do. Forget about trying to receive Direct-TV, XM and Sirius signals on a DVB IRD, since they use proprietary transmission systems that are completely incompatible with anything other than their own hardware (and in the case of the latter two, they operate on frequencies that probably no DVB-S receivers support.)

See also:
http://lyngsat.com/
http://gosatellite.com/ <-- this is who I got my box from
http://global-cm.net/

Hope this helps.
____________________________________________
* Digicipher II is a proprietary system that's completely incompatible with DVB, although ATSC is largely based on it. It includes a scrambling "feature" but not everybody uses it, in fact, there is some stuff in DC2 that does go out in the clear.

 

[zzdiesel]

Thanks Darth_vader. You gave me as much info in one post as a lot of the rest I've got, but it's still a lot to take in after being out for 13 years. So you feel that I'll be greatly disappointed if I get a 4D-TV with both bands? I just looked at that FTA master list on Go Satellite. I might've liked 5 or channels I might want to watch.

I basically want to receive most everything in the clear with no scrambling/encryption. If a major news story is going on; I'd like the 24 hour access to it I used to have.

I'd like to have one of old VC2 boards if it was hacked back in the day. They still get video. I used one for Wrestling PPV's & etc. If it's not hacked it would be a paperweight to me. I'd use a VC2+ if I decide to subscribe to what's left and/or to watch free previews & etc.

 

[Darth_vader]

Well, if by 4DTV you mean a Digicipher II box, you might not be too disappointed, since there's probably still quite a bit of stuff in that format that is in the clear. (I don't actually have one myself, since I just have DVB hardware, but I have used them.) I know the DMX audio programming on AMC-18 and Music Choice on Galaxy 14 are still in the clear, anyways.

If it's VCn (or even regular NTSC), I wouldn't hold out a lot of hope for it being useful very far into the future as those services, if there even still are any, eventually migrate to DVB or DC2. I don't know why anybody would be using it these days, except maybe if they're support "legacy" installations with lots of users who haven't gone to the digital system, like cable headends. In fact, looking through the Lyngsat charts I haven't come across anything listed as VC2/+ yet, although I do still see a few clear NTSC transponders listed.

But I would still very strongly recommend adding a DVB/DVBS2 system to your setup if you don't have one, though, especially if you want feeds. That, and almost all the PBS stuff on AMC-21 Ku appears to be S2-only (if you're into PBS.)

See also:
http://lyngsat.com/america.html (I gave an incomplete URL in my last post.)

EDIT ADD:
Looks like Weather Channel on AMC-11 Tp. 13 is VC2! So there's one...

 

[KMG54]

Go for it

There is still plenty up there although most is DVB and DVB S2. A great little reciever for little money is a X2 from amazon.com. For 54 bucks shipped it has S2, blindscan,dvr and wireless internet for you tube and some IPTV.Do you still have a old anolog box to move the dish? If not a gbox is only about 50 bucks also.I love my 12 foot unimesh,but you are correct in the fact the wife won't like it too much. I do have cable for my main veiwing.But there are lots of sport feeds and forieng programming along with the big three networks available. CBS takes a special kind of STB that does 4.2.2 video but NBC and ABC will work fine with the X2 and in High Definition.Most breaking news stories are on Ku band now so if you have a co rotor or a bullseye feed you will get them along with a ton of college football. Set it up and enjoy it! Visit Rick's sattellite forums and see what is up there still and get all the info you need to get that old dish going again.

 

[zzdiesel]

When I say 4D-TV; I'm referring to last receiver put out by General Instruments that had digital. They discontinued any support on it at the end of July. I figure some are left over in warehouses & etc to be sold or whatever they do with stuff like that. I'm thinking I'm going to buy a C & KU-Band system first. I expect a little more funding to come in Feb and I'll likely buy a FTA system then & add to my system.

 

[KMG54]

It has been a long time since any 4DTv's were made and any sitting in a warehouse are likely to have a dead battery. Dead battery equals very expensive dish mover after battery replacement that will not recieve any Digital regardless of being open or encrypted. Once the battery goes dead the unit loses it's id number and no longer works on any DCII.

 

[zzdiesel]

Thanks guys. I do appreciate y'alls time & input. nmelfi, is it possible for a tech to put a new box back like new back in service with a new battery or would it be a paperweight from then on? Do the batteries recharge while in service? Can the new arc settings be programmed into these boxes?

 

[Darth_vader]

Waitaminnit--you're saying those things still use/d battery-backed RAM?

Jeeze, I thought that would have gone by the wayside by the end of the '90s. Apparently somebody must never have heard of FLASH!

"Do the batteries recharge while in service?"

I've not seen the inside of a DC2 box, but if they're built anything like the VC2 boxes (read: cages) I've seen, they probably use a nonrechargable 3 volt lithium-manganese oxide 1/2AA (looks like a regular AA battery cut in half) with a wire soldered between the "+" terminal and the circuit board. It's basically the same kind of battery App£e used to use for CMOS backup in the pre-Intel era Macintoy line. They last for years, but when they croak, that's it. There's a chances they might have gotten smart over the years and switched to rechargable batteries that float on the box's power supply, but I really couldn't tell you.

 

[KMG54]

Waitaminnit--you're saying those things still use/d battery-backed RAM?

Jeeze, I thought that would have gone by the wayside by the end of the '90s. Apparently somebody must never have heard of FLASH!

"Do the batteries recharge while in service?"

I've not seen the inside of a DC2 box, but if they're built anything like the VC2 boxes (read: cages) I've seen, they probably use a nonrechargable 3 volt lithium-manganese oxide 1/2AA (looks like a regular AA battery cut in half) with a wire soldered between the "+" terminal and the circuit board. It's basically the same kind of battery App£e used to use for CMOS backup in the pre-Intel era Macintoy line. They last for years, but when they croak, that's it. There's a chances they might have gotten smart over the years and switched to rechargable batteries that float on the box's power supply, but I really couldn't tell you.

Nope no smarter.Once the battery goes dead the unit losses it ID number and fixed key DCII is no longer available.ATS electronics in NC had some replacement boards but they ran out a while ago and are now closing shop from what I here.In order to view fixed key channels the box had to be authorized at some time in it's life,once the ID is gone you cannot authorize it and it becomes a dish mover.But on the bright side,with a simple battery replacement and a new set of maps from a program called map Master it is one of the best dish movers you could own.It supplies the 36 volts needed for the actuator and has plenty of LNB options with enough juice to power them.And believe it or not there is still a few anolog feeds to be found, but you have to look hard.A DSR 922 moving your big dish and even a simple DVB reciever like the X2 Premium mentioned will give you plenty to play with.

 

[zzdiesel]

Ok. So in other words a 922 with the lost ID would still get all the feeds & back hauls that are left out there?

 

[Darth_vader]

Figured as much. With the repair shoppe closing and GI (Motorola) discontinuing production of the DC2 receivers.....kinda' sounds to me like they're trying to retire Digicipher II altogether by letting the existing base of receiver hardware drop dead. Think Moto might be undergoing a change of heart and yet another new reimplementation of DVB'll be coming down the pike in the coming years? (Knowing them.......mmmmmaybe not, but who knows.)

"Believe it or not, there are still a few analogue feeds to be found, but you have to look hard."
http://lyngsat.com/Galaxy-13-Horizons-1.html (Ku band) -- might be hard to receive on the east coast
http://lyngsat.com/Anik-F2.html (C-band) (Canadian feeds)

Feeds! Feeds! Feeds! I have no idea what any of them are, since I don't have a Never Twice the Same Colour receiver, but apparently that's where you can find some of them. It looks like there are a few more scattered around some of the other birds. Also looks like QVC and Home Shopping Club can be found in glorious NTSC on AMC 10 C transponders 9 and 10. AMC 11 C also has C-Span on tp. 7.

The CBC DVB feeds on Anik F1R Ku also appear to require a 4:2:2 compatible receiver.

 

[Darth_vader]

"So in other words a 922 with the lost ID would still get all the feeds & back hauls that are left out there?"

Does a DC2 receiver have to have an identification number to use in-the-clear streams, or is that required only for scrambled ones?

 

[zzdiesel]

It looks like G13 should come in well. It's parked close to where G5 (now G14) resides. I used to watch quite a few feeds on (A1) the main Anilk bird.

 

[KMG54]

Ok. So in other words a 922 with the lost ID would still get all the feeds & back hauls that are left out there?

No not anything DCII only anolog witch are still around at times but rare.If you find a 922 with a good ID there is still stuff to be had,but I would focus on a DVB reciever and a 922 with map master as a mover and a bonus free channel reciever. With just a 922 you will be disapointed. With a DVS2 reciever with blind scan you will have fun.Next thing you know you will have a 1 meter Ku dish up and have a hole lot of fun!

 

[zzdiesel]

An update. I found a guy about 100 miles away. He was going to sell me a new C & KU-Band system last year. Then all of a sudden he just disappeared by ignoring my emails & calls. I'd still like to get into a system, but there's still not much to choose from. Installer guys are even harder to find unless it's Dish or DirecTV. I sure don't want those systems.