APCO-25 Decoder Module? Generic? Icom PCR1000?

[hotdjdave]

Does anyone know if there is any generic APCO-25 decoder modules out there to attach to scanners?

Is this a possibility? Can it be done?

I remember a module you could add to your scanner antenna that enabled scanners to receive 800 MHz frequencies. I have see APCO-25 modules for certain scannes.

I would like to see one for the Icom IC PCR-1000 (computer controlled scanner).

Does anyone else want to see this? What can we do?

Dave. :idea:

 

[flyingwolf]

Sure I want one for my Pro-92. :shock:

 

[N_Jay]

It would probably not be too reliable.
You have to reliably decode the 4 level modulation.

Most scanners don't have IF or baseband ports, so the market is almost non-existant, and the company would have to test it with all sorts of combinations and put up with the complaints from the picky customers.

 

[KC1UA]

AOR already makes one, the ARD-25. It works with the 10.7 IF output of many different receivers, including the AOR AR5000, AR8600, Icom IC-R8500, and IC-R7000.

Reportedly it can be modified to work with the discriminator output of just about any scanner. Steve Donnell of Scanning USA wrote a two part article on this modification in that magazine last fall. Whether it's become available on the internet is an unknown to me, but it is apparently doable.

Also, there is apparently a modification for the PCR1000 that allows for the addition of a 10.7 MHz IF output. With that in mind it may well work with the ARD-25.

I have an ARD-25 that I used with my AR5000 receiver and am currently using with my Icom IC-R7000 receiver. It works pretty well, although I find the audio to be a bit "tinny".

 

[N_Jay]

AOR already makes one, the ARD-25. It works with the 10.7 IF output of many different receivers, including the AOR AR5000, AR8600, Icom IC-R8500, and IC-R7000.

Reportedly it can be modified to work with the discriminator output of just about any scanner. Steve Donnell of Scanning USA wrote a two part article on this modification in that magazine last fall. Whether it's become available on the internet is an unknown to me, but it is apparently doable.

Also, there is apparently a modification for the PCR1000 that allows for the addition of a 10.7 MHz IF output. With that in mind it may well work with the ARD-25.

I have an ARD-25 that I used with my AR5000 receiver and am currently using with my Icom IC-R7000 receiver. It works pretty well, although I find the audio to be a bit "tinny".

IF out is one thing, but I would doubt the descriminator tap idea.

Unless your scanner happens to have a discriminator/demodulator very similar tro the one used in teh AOR box. Then you would have to buy pass the IF in and "tap" the right point to inject the signal.

 

[KC1UA]

IF out is one thing, but I would doubt the descriminator tap idea.

Unless your scanner happens to have a discriminator/demodulator very similar tro the one used in teh AOR box. Then you would have to buy pass the IF in and "tap" the right point to inject the signal.

That's pretty much what his article entailed, IIRC. He claimed to have it working with any number of old scanners that had a discriminator tap. He used any of the several departments in New Hampshire that use VHF-HI conventional APCO-25 to do his testing. There was a good thread regarding this on the SCAN-L mailing list, but I've never come across a reprint of the articles on the internet.

 

[woody_461]

@ scancapecod.I have read about the AOR decoder.The R7100 receiver can't trunktrack,so it would be almost useless on a large Apco-25 system,is that correct?I have an Icom R8500,so I looked at the possibilities of the decoder.I believe it also passes analog signals "in the clear",no distortion?

 

[N_Jay]

IF out is one thing, but I would doubt the descriminator tap idea.

Unless your scanner happens to have a discriminator/demodulator very similar tro the one used in teh AOR box. Then you would have to buy pass the IF in and "tap" the right point to inject the signal.

That's pretty much what his article entailed, IIRC. He claimed to have it working with any number of old scanners that had a discriminator tap. He used any of the several departments in New Hampshire that use VHF-HI conventional APCO-25 to do his testing. There was a good thread regarding this on the SCAN-L mailing list, but I've never come across a reprint of the articles on the internet.

Sorry for being the sceptic, but "I'll belive it when I see it!"

 

[KC1UA]

@ scancapecod.I have read about the AOR decoder.The R7100 receiver can't trunktrack,so it would be almost useless on a large Apco-25 system,is that correct?I have an Icom R8500,so I looked at the possibilities of the decoder.I believe it also passes analog signals "in the clear",no distortion?

Well you could use it as the trunk following scanner using one of the Trunker incarnations. UniTrunker will apparently offer 9600 baud P25 system tracking. If the R7100 and/or R8500 were added as compatible trunk following radios when Rick gets to that stage, then I guess it would work. Probably simpler to buy a PRO-96, PRO-2096, or the forthcoming BCD396T. As far as the ARD-25's passing of analog signals goes, it sounds God awful, to put it bluntly. I don't feed analog audio through it. P25 audio is produced via the 10.7 IF output and does not require the external speaker connection from the radio. I use a separate speaker for the ARD-25, and kill the radio's volume when listening to a P25 signal.

N_Jay, I tend to agree with you, but I know the individual that wrote the article and he is indeed quite technically savvy, so I also tend to believe it's possible. As you suggest I'd love to see it for myself. Here is the link to the thread at this site that contains some of the data that Steve produced:

http://www.radioreference.com/modul...ile=viewtopic&t=11032&highlight=ard25

The only reason I even considered the ARD-25 was to connect it to a receiver capable of really DX'ing (like the AR5000 or the Icom), which is my first love in the radio hobby. I use a PRO-96 and PRO-2096 for "everyday P25 decoding". :lol:

 

[woody_461]

Scancapecod,thanks for the info!

Have to agree with the Icom & the AOR being great for dxing.They are less prone to overload with an outdoor antenna.

I had an Optotrakker couple to my R8500,but I was diappointed with the trunktracking.The scan speed was real slow,although LTR &ctccss & dtmf &dcs decoding worked fine..I was using Scanstar software with it,support was dropped for the Optotrakker in XP.An expensive lesson. :roll:

 

[N_Jay]

Well I guessed right, they were bypassing the internal discriminator and injecting the signal.

I would be concerned with the sensitivity, as I don't think a P25 signal from an FM discriminator is going to be as clean as from one designed for C4FM specifically.

Like most experimentation, "making it work", and "making it work well" are not always the same.

 

[woody_461]

I think a hardware decoder for the Icom PCR1000 would be a waste of money.You're better off getting a digital scanner IMHO.I'm not sure if anybody could come up with a good software only solution for Apco25.I doubt if Icom is even considering a trunktracking option for any of their radios.They'll probably leave it up to third party vendors.

Current addon decoders like the AOR,are not a good solution by the sounds of things.Any future decoders will probably be expensive too,rivalling the price of a digital scanner.

 

[loumaag]

Current addon decoders like the AOR,are not a good solution by the sounds of things.Any future decoders will probably be expensive too,rivalling the price of a digital scanner.

I agree with this; however, where I think AOR made a mistake is that they utilized another protocol on the ARD9800 and ARD9000. Instead of going with another open standard (G4GUO) they should have stuck to the P-25. As it is, the ham community has 3 commercial competing and non-compatable digital voice modes in addition the the P-25 mode working its way in.

 

[EricCottrell]

Scancapecod,thanks for the info!

Have to agree with the Icom & the AOR being great for dxing.They are less prone to overload with an outdoor antenna.

I had an Optotrakker couple to my R8500,but I was diappointed with the trunktracking.The scan speed was real slow,although LTR &ctccss & dtmf &dcs decoding worked fine..I was using Scanstar software with it,support was dropped for the Optotrakker in XP.An expensive lesson. :roll:

Hello,

I found my AOR 8600 to be more sensitive than my Unidens (at least on UHF). It took alittle effort to learn the AOR way of doing things but I find the 8600 is very flexible. The very flexible frequency step size with offset allows me to put in bandplans like 12.5 KHz steps with a 6.25 KHz offset from the bandedge. I also like the flexible scan delay and scan resume settings.

Looks like I have another option for P25 on the 8600 and even cheaper than the ARD25.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/widerxvr/0495.html
I do not see it listed on any of the AOR sites. I called Universal Radio and they said it is a future item and none are available yet.

73 Eric

 

[woody_461]

Nice link...

Good price,but again does not support trunktracking.Guess it depends how you want to use it.I'm only interested in trunktracking local emergency type services.

Agreed... the Aor's,and Icoms for the most part have a better frontend design that the Unidens or GRE.

 

[woody_461]

@Loumaag.I'm not familiar with the AOR models you mentioned.We will be continually upgrading because of all the new modes,and their variants.Motorola being a case in point...so many different modes/protocol/variants,and more on the way,I'm sure.

 

[loumaag]

@Loumaag.I'm not familiar with the AOR models you mentioned.

They are AOR Modems for ham use, or encoders/decoders if you perfer.

Voice and image model ARD9800:
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamacc/4050.html

Voice only model ARD9000:
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamacc/0916.html

 

[woody_461]

Thanks... I see what you're talking about.I'm not a ham operator,but I understand their purpose/functions.

 

[hotdjdave]

APCO-25 for ICOM IC PCR-1000

Thanks everyone for posting your responses.

I am aware of the Radio Shack and Uniden/Bercat Scanners with APCO-25 and TrunkTracking. I will pick one of them up when I can get half a grand together. I am pretty sure that future models from these companies and others will have APCO-25 capabilities.

How about ham radios with wide-band receivers that have APCO-25? Anyone know of any?

What I really want is to be able to use my computer based scanner (PCR1000) with APCO-25. I would hate to have to go out and buy another system...I like the PCR-1000. Maybe someone will come out with a software solution.

Any links to software for the PCR-1000? I have the basic software by ICOM. I am aware of Bonito, but can afford it right now.

By the way, I live in LAPD country, they don't use trunking - just digital (APCO-25). The other LA City services and the LA Department of Water and Power do use trunking, except LA Fire.

Thanks everyone.

 

[hotdjdave]

Poll Statistics

Looking at the stats in the poll, a mojority of the pollies would like some sort of device to add to their existing scanner. :!: