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I'm in the market for a handheld scanner, and looking to purchase the Uniden BCD396XT. But I want to verify that it's capable of receiving ARMER?
ARMER Question
- Thread starter PoliceScanner1029
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YES IT DOES...
ARMER will be going to Phase 2 in 2015 so unless Uniden comes out with a scanner that will handle that, then it will not work. Also there are rumors that encryption will start becoming more popular once the Phase 2 upgrade is complete.
mmtstc
Ø
ARMER is NOT going to migrate to Phase 2 TDMA in anything that could be construed as the near, immediate, intermittent, middle, or foreseeable future. I repeat NOT going to phase two. ARMER will be adding the ability to have Phase 2 talkgroups with the ASTRO 7.15? upgrade, but there are many agencies that just went online with XTS portables, which are not capable of TDMA modulation, and the typical lifespan of ARMER user equipment is 10 to 15 years.
Talkgroups will be able to switch back and forth from FDMA to TDMA (AFAIK) based on the radios that are being used on the talkgroup at any given time. At my agency, all of our front line radios are APX 6000, 6500 or 7000, which are Phase 2 capable, but we have a fleet of spare radios for interns, backups and training that are XTS5000's, which are FDMA only. in theory, we could be Phase II if we are running with just our primary fleet, but the moment that we turn on a spare radio, that talkgroup reverts back to Phase I.
stmills
Member
ARMER is currently Astro p25 7.09, upgrading to 7.13 May 2013, and 7.15 5/16.
To run TDMA or Dynamic Dual Mode needs a minimum software of 7.11, APX radios and MCC7500 Consoles upgraded to P25 TDMA.
Current ARMER system does not support TDMA. The 7.13 upgrade allows the system to run TDMA but most dispatch consoles are still Gold Elites, which will be replaced before the upgrade to 7.15, but the P25 TDMA upgrae has not been added to ARMER and Motorola has just presented the first round of figures on the TDMA option.
Metropolitan Emergency Services Board
Radio Technical Operations Committee
Meeting Notes
February 27, 2013
SMG Update:
Jansen said that the SMG discussed system lifecycle and heard about the 7.15
upgrade, which will be May 2016. There are no plans to discontinue the XTS/XTL radios. Parts will be available for seven years after the cancellation announcements. Gold Elite parts will be obsolescent in 2018. The last release support will be 7.14. For STRs, the last release support will be 7.17, with last parts available July 2014. Quantars and STRs must be replaced prior to 7.19. The last Quantar parts will be December 2018. The 7.13 upgrade will start May 6, with the system lockdown occurring in April. Motorola discovered an issue with STR and GTRs no the same
simulcast channels with this upgrade. They are developing a work around. In 7.13, clients are going to Windows 7, which means some clients must be replaced. Motorola will provide TDMA cost estimates at the March SMG meeting. TDMA can be added at a later date.
To run TDMA or Dynamic Dual Mode needs a minimum software of 7.11, APX radios and MCC7500 Consoles upgraded to P25 TDMA.
Current ARMER system does not support TDMA. The 7.13 upgrade allows the system to run TDMA but most dispatch consoles are still Gold Elites, which will be replaced before the upgrade to 7.15, but the P25 TDMA upgrae has not been added to ARMER and Motorola has just presented the first round of figures on the TDMA option.
Metropolitan Emergency Services Board
Radio Technical Operations Committee
Meeting Notes
February 27, 2013
SMG Update:
Jansen said that the SMG discussed system lifecycle and heard about the 7.15
upgrade, which will be May 2016. There are no plans to discontinue the XTS/XTL radios. Parts will be available for seven years after the cancellation announcements. Gold Elite parts will be obsolescent in 2018. The last release support will be 7.14. For STRs, the last release support will be 7.17, with last parts available July 2014. Quantars and STRs must be replaced prior to 7.19. The last Quantar parts will be December 2018. The 7.13 upgrade will start May 6, with the system lockdown occurring in April. Motorola discovered an issue with STR and GTRs no the same
simulcast channels with this upgrade. They are developing a work around. In 7.13, clients are going to Windows 7, which means some clients must be replaced. Motorola will provide TDMA cost estimates at the March SMG meeting. TDMA can be added at a later date.
blue5011
Member
My County Sheriff, all city police (county-wide), EMS, Fire, and County Public Works just got all new radios for ARMER. Whether or not those radios are capable of a new "phase", I couldn't tell you. But I know this much, the taxpayers of the county are not going to be happy at all, IF, more new radio toys need to be purchased.
Another thing is law enforcement seem to be using cellphones more and more. Every time I pass a police vehicle the phone is to the officers head...
stmills
Member
I think there will be a lot more questioning about the move to 7.15. There was a questioning at the State Radio Board about why are they upgrading and is it worth the cost, right now most of the cost is on the state for the upgrades a but after 7.13 more is on the shoulders of the local boards.
Circuit based simulcast needs to be replaced with IP based for TDMA too, so it will also require a lot of the controllers and site routers to be changed on the early simulcast sites. The interop stuff would have to be dynamic dual mode, so if just one XTL/XTS affiliates the talkgroup reverts back to current FDMA. Private TGs may go to TDMA only if the county is all APX. There are some counties than are mostly APX now, especially down south near IA border. If the State decides to add the feature to the system I would suspect those areas would switch first since the newer tower sites will support it and the radios are capable.
blue5011
Member
There is no reason for routine traffic stops and calls to be encrypted. As a taxpaying citizen, I want to know what the law enforcement gang is doing. Ten years ago my county was regarded as a radar speed trap along I-90. Finally we elected a sheriff who keeps his officers off I-90 and patrolling county roads. Additionally there are still county agencies in parts of the state who have not completely upgraded to ARMER (APR 2013 plan showed that the northwest part of the state).
stmills
Member
There have been rumors of encryption since ARMER was first being planned in the early 90's. There was encryption before ARMER and there will continue to be. Looking at the Agencies I monitor the percentage of talkgroups encrypted is less than the percentage of legacy channels that were encrypted. The number of encrypted channels vs talkgroups is fairly equal but the total number of talkgroups vs channels has increased.
Currently in the metro you can hear plenty of task force traffic on open channels because of the lack of shared encrypted talkgroups.
In the metro there are enough agencies that monitor each other and respond on each others mains that encryption would be a hindrance to operations and officer safety.
Currently in the metro you can hear plenty of task force traffic on open channels because of the lack of shared encrypted talkgroups.
In the metro there are enough agencies that monitor each other and respond on each others mains that encryption would be a hindrance to operations and officer safety.
n9upc
Member
One more thought on encryption
While yes many agencies use Motorola on the system there are also Kenwoods, EF Johnsons, and I think maybe a Tait or Harris (unsure?) The only common encryption format to be used across ALL those radios that is cost effective is DES.
Right now DES is deployed across a fair amount of multi-user talkgroups such as the radio techs. However, many local agencies using all Motorola have chosen to take advantage of ADP. It is a $15 encryption add on when ordering the radio.
While granted ADP might not be as secure as DES, when it comes down to dollars and cents. A $15 add-on to talk within my department as compared to a $300 add-on so I might be able to talk to a neighboring agency, if I get permission and the key, makes a lot more sense to a radio system planner.
While yes many agencies use Motorola on the system there are also Kenwoods, EF Johnsons, and I think maybe a Tait or Harris (unsure?) The only common encryption format to be used across ALL those radios that is cost effective is DES.
Right now DES is deployed across a fair amount of multi-user talkgroups such as the radio techs. However, many local agencies using all Motorola have chosen to take advantage of ADP. It is a $15 encryption add on when ordering the radio.
While granted ADP might not be as secure as DES, when it comes down to dollars and cents. A $15 add-on to talk within my department as compared to a $300 add-on so I might be able to talk to a neighboring agency, if I get permission and the key, makes a lot more sense to a radio system planner.
blue5011
Member
I typically watch three other state forums. In each one there are the fanatics who rally around the idea that encryption is on the way... Yet there is a continuing cost and practicality that no one seems to address. What works in one part of the country does not work well in other areas.
There's also the small but important point that it is propriety so you can't talk secure to anyone else.
gunmasternd
Member
That and mdt software kinda ruins the hobby. Sending msges back and forth and adding comments on runs. Im surprise theres any radio traffic at all.
You have no right to listen to any Law Enforcement communications. They can do anything to their systems as they please.
PSAPS are in the process of replacing their Gold Elite II consoles with MCC7500's. Hennepin just did, state patrol is in the process, etc. As more and more agencies, entities add radios, channel capacity is starting to become a problem. Just look at PRO96 Com on any of the Hennepin sites, on a normal night they fill up, on a big event there are barely enough channels and users complain of not getting a channel grant.
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