Aviation voice communications transition from analog to digital

[n6hgg]

Can't see much prior discussion about this. I was watching a cabinet meeting today in the White House and Sean Duffy said that the transition would be done by the time the term is over. Should be interesting don't you think? The latency issues with digital and all of that stuff, not to mention the split second missed communications that happen even with instantaneous analog transmission and reception?

 

[nd5y]

Are you sure they were talking about digital voice radios or something else?

Analog voice isn't instantaneous when it's converted to digital, sent over a network and converted back to analog.

 

[EAFrizzle]

...Sean Duffy said that the transition would be done by the time the term is over...

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

[alcahuete]

By move to digital, they are really talking about moving from copper to fiber, and IP-based comms., not a digital format like DMR or something. A ton of the radios (I'd say most) still utilize telco copper, which is not being maintained, breaks constantly, etc. and causes radio outages.

 

[nd5y]

By move to digital, they are really talking about moving from copper to fiber, and IP-based comms., not a digital format like DMR or something. A ton of the radios (I'd say most) still utilize telco copper, which is not being maintained, breaks constantly, etc. and causes radio outages.

Didn't the FAA upgrade all that to fiber already?

 

[mass-man]

Didn't the FAA upgrade all that to fiber already?

Yep...good friend is radar maintenance manager for FAA and was thrilled when the MW links went away. One less thing to deal with!!!

 

[mmckenna]

Sean Duffy said that the transition would be done by the time the term is over. Should be interesting don't you think?

Another TV personality turned expert on something they don't understand. Perfect.

 

[n6hgg]

For the poster who asked whether it was the ground base systems or the air to ground systems, here's what Google said about it:

"
Key analog-to-digital transitions

• Air Traffic Control Voice Communications:The FAA is moving from analog radio to a digital system that uses VoIP for communication between pilots and air traffic controllers.
  • Benefits: This provides clearer voice, is more reliable, and allows for greater operational flexibility, such as sharing radios between control centers.
  • Resilience: In emergencies, centers can transfer communication assets, which is not possible with the current analog systems.
  • Maintenance: The digital system is easier to maintain than the aging analog switches that are prone to failure."
• That sounds sort of scary to me. First paragraph says it all. How is that going to work to take advantage of the party line effect that we now have where everybody can hear everybody else? Maybe it'll be on an alternate frequency for digital stuff and leave the am analog mode alone. But it kind of doesn't sound like that's the direction they are going in. Mode confusion should be a consideration if they're going to do that because it sure has been an issue with automated airplanes and their complicated autopilot systems. Mode confusion eats valuable time in stressful split second moment decisions.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

For the poster who asked whether it was the ground base systems or the air to ground systems, here's what Google said about it:

And if it's on Google (AI?) it must be true, right?

 

[kc2asb]

By move to digital, they are really talking about moving from copper to fiber, and IP-based comms., not a digital format like DMR or something. A ton of the radios (I'd say most) still utilize telco copper, which is not being maintained, breaks constantly, etc. and causes radio outages.

This sounds more realistic. So, if I understand correctly, OTA comms between towers/aircraft will remain analog?

 

[n6hgg]

And if it's on Google (AI?) it must be true, right?

Well gee, you have to research and consider that it MIGHT be true even if dopey Google says so. Google's AI sucks if you have noticed if you research things you know about and then let Google do it, they almost always get it wrong. Some clear detailed clarification would help. It's just a curiosity thing for me as a former aircraft accident investigator. Throw more complexity into it and it becomes another reason to auger a smoking hole into the ground.

 

[alcahuete]

Didn't the FAA upgrade all that to fiber already?

Oh no. A lot is fiber in the major cities but the majority is telco copper, which is not being appropriately maintained, and goes down frequently. That is especially true at remote sites. No reason to have fiber on the mountaintops because nobody else is up there. They're now either putting fiber everywhere they can, or using satellite links to/from the sites. Either way, it will all be VOIP based.

This sounds more realistic. So, if I understand correctly, OTA comms between towers/aircraft will remain analog?

From everything I know, yes. There's going to be CPDLC thrown in the mix (as is the case currently), but still analog.

 

[n6hgg]

Just poking around the subject on the internet, link at the bottom of this post. Another thing Duffy said was that they are "buying all the radios". What radios? The ones just for the ground systems or the ones that all the airplanes get also? This copied section out of the PDF file says 25,000 radios will need to be replaced. Sounds like maybe just the commercial airliners? I'm pretty sure they may be saying that the airborne radios will remain the same but the ground base radios will be able to communicate over a ground based VoIP network what they are communicating with over the air on AM. That way the aviation sector can be handed to another center if saturation in a certain sector. Hell if I know. Probably should discuss this somewhere else I guess.

From the transportation.gov website:
"The FAA must transition its radios to newer equipment to address the obsolescence, reliability issues, and cybersecurity vulnerabilities of aging radio equipment, and to ensure safe and efficient air traffic communication in the NAS. Legacy radios, some over 30 years old, rely on outdated analog technology, leading to frequent outages, high maintenance costs due to scarce parts, and incompatibility with modern digital standards like VoIP. Newer equipment, being deployed as part of the FAA’s NEXCOM program, offers improved clarity, reliability, and spectrum efficiency, critical for managing increasing air traffic. These digital systems enhance cybersecurity, reduce risks that were highlighted in GAO reports on FAA’s vulnerable IT, and enable integration with advanced automation for real-time data sharing. This transition, targeting the replacement of over 25,000 radios, is vital for maintaining controller-pilot communication,
reducing delays, and aligning with global aviation standards."

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2025-05/Brand New Air Traffic Control System Plan.pdf

 

[nd5y]

• Benefits: This provides clearer voice, is more reliable, and allows for greater operational flexibility, such as sharing radios between control centers.

Please explain how control centers share radios (analog or digital) with aircraft.

 

[spanky15805]

A vast majority of radios in the field are ITT/Park Air MDR-2100 for VHF and UHF. A very,very stable radio that has a MTF of roughly >40000 hours, as long as people keep their grimy fingers out of it. The 25000 radios that going to replace them are General Dynamics CM 300/350v2 radios. Nothing to write home about. Condition of copper in the field really sucks, even with the lead coating. Most of the copper was direct buried in the 58-62 time frame. IF size isn't a consideration, they make a damn fine airband receiver! $0.02

 

[merlin]

Analog will be around for a long time to come. Although VOIP would be easy to retrofit, there is a lot of FAA-FCC hoops to go through, and we all know how fast that works. That trasition has to be seamless, then real world testing.
@ nd5y It is now one huge network with layers of networks, mostly now all fiber. Satellite would be too slow and a lot of radar is still microwave.
Not sure how they will handle HF/long distance, no reason that could not become digital.

 

[mmckenna]

A major change like migrating VHF air to digital won't get announced by one country and foisted on everyone else. That would be a total mess based on the amount of international air traffic that comes in/out of the US.

The standard for changing something like VHF Air or HF would come down from the ITU with lots of planning, testing and discussion, then years to allow everyone to adopt it.

Similar thing is already being discussed by the ITU to adopt standards for Marine VHF to go narrow band and eventually have a digital standard. That's probably decades down the road.

Ignore the media/TV personalities talking about things they do not understand. If you want to see if a digital VHF air band service is coming, go look on the ITU pages.

 

[kayn1n32008]

A major change like migrating VHF air to digital won't get announced by one country and foisted on everyone else. That would be a total mess based on the amount of international air traffic that comes in/out of the US.

The standard for changing something like VHF Air or HF would come down from the ITU with lots of planning, testing and discussion, then years to allow everyone to adopt it.

Bingo, going from AM emission to a digital voice mode for ATC definitely won't be dictated by the US. It will come down from the ITU, with agreement from all participants. I doubt it will happen in my life time, and I'm under 50 for a few more years.

It most definitely won't be happening before TACO leaves office.