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AWIN Discussion

Scanningar

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Someone please verify the control channel for Little Rock Metro Simulcast. Having the NAC will help, also.
I am listening to the simulcast at the moment from Maumelle on a SDS100. Primary control in use right now is still 856.1875, and is receiving and decoding data properly. NAC is 185.
 

jhsands

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I am listening to the simulcast at the moment from Maumelle on a SDS100. Primary control in use right now is still 856.1875, and is receiving and decoding data properly. NAC is 185.
Thanks, Scanningar! I am guessing his radio needs to be aligned since the control channel is in the trunking system list according to those with access.
 

Scanningar

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Thanks, Scanningar! I am guessing his radio needs to be aligned since the control channel is in the trunking system list according to those with access.
The LR Metro Simulcast can be really finicky, at least on consumer equipment. Here in the area of Maumelle I live in it is almost un-listenable on my BCD436HP or Whistler 1080 (most likely because I am almost centered between two of the towers). Out and about in the city and those two scanners go between great and very poor performance. The SDS100 does a great job though, but still not fully perfect and can struggle a little bit.
 

jhsands

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The LR Metro Simulcast can be really finicky, at least on consumer equipment. Here in the area of Maumelle I live in it is almost un-listenable on my BCD436HP or Whistler 1080 (most likely because I am almost centered between two of the towers). Out and about in the city and those two scanners go between great and very poor performance. The SDS100 does a great job though, but still not fully perfect and can struggle a little bit.
Interesting the SDS1000 can have some slight issues with simulcast. His radio is an XTL5000 so the simulcast waves should not be an issue.
 
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Does anyone know the control channels for the round mountain tower?

I have 853.1875 and 852.9125 but I am still missing some transmissions.
 

Scanningar

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Does anyone know the control channels for the round mountain tower?

I have 853.1875 and 852.9125 but I am still missing some transmissions.
What radio are you using to listen? I am running Unitrunker on this tower right now to verify the database info, but those control channels are still correct.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01RD using Tapatalk
 
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What radio are you using to listen? I am running Unitrunker on this tower right now to verify the database info, but those control channels are still correct.

Sent from my ASUS_Z01RD using Tapatalk
I am using a whistler ws 1080 and a unication g4. I had the whistler on the little rock metro simulcast tower and the g4 on the round mountain tower and was noticing that every once in a while the whistler would pick up transmissions on the LRSM tower that was not coming across on the g4.

I might have to go into pps and see if i put something in wrong.
 
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I just looked at my profile for the g4 on pps and everything is correct for the round mountain tower, but still missing transmissions only on the Arkansas State Police Troop A talkgroup.

I thought the LRSM tower was linked with the round mountain tower.
 

jhsands

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I just looked at my profile for the g4 on pps and everything is correct for the round mountain tower, but still missing transmissions only on the Arkansas State Police Troop A talkgroup.

I thought the LRSM tower was linked with the round mountain tower.
If there is not a radio with ASP A logged onto that tower, then it will not transmit the talkgroup regardless of it being linked.

I have seen when G LAW was being used that it was distributed to linked towers but not day-to-day talkgroups.
 

jhsands

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New TG: 21423 RID: 4602xxx
The TG appears to be associated with Bryant but I have not heard any traffic on it.

New TG: 45153 RID: 8777xxx
The TG appears to be associated with the Army Corps of Engineers .
 
Last edited:
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If there is not a radio with ASP A logged onto that tower, then it will not transmit the talkgroup regardless of it being linked.

I have seen when G LAW was being used that it was distributed to linked towers but not day-to-day talkgroups.
Ok thanks, that makes sense now because it's missing only one transmission very rarely so that must be it.

Thanks.
 

03msc

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Yes, and this is why AWIN puts out the "do not drag talkgroups across the state" notice to radio users and is why you typically can't sit in south Arkansas and listen to a talkgroup assigned to somewhere in north Arkansas (though if it needed to be done, it could). Let me give an example:

If a trooper from Troop A (Little Rock area) is traveling to Jonesboro for whatever reason, when they get to Beebe they will notify their dispatcher at Troop A that they are "10-96 to Troop B" and then switch their radio to Troop B Dispatch and say "Newport I'm 10-96 your troop en route to Jonesboro". When they hit the Troop C border, they will notify Troop B Dispatch that they are 96 to Troop C and then switch to C and tell them they are in their troop.

Why is that? Because if they left their radio on Troop A Dispatch, it would 'drag' that talkgroup across all of the towers in Troop B's area and then Troop C's area and tie up valuable control and voice channels while they did it.

Here is the notice from AWIN a couple of years ago:

Dragging Talkgroups is an issue on shared radio systems like AWIN. It can negatively affect system performance. We thought it would be a good time to provide some information about dragging talkgroups.
1) Before getting into talk groups and dragging, you need to understand what a P25 Digital Trunked Radio System is.
a. P25 is the current standard for emergency service grade radio equipment. If a manufacturer makes a product and says it is P25 compliant, then It has to work with other P25 equipment regardless of manufacturer.
b. A Trunked Radio System is a one that has the frequencies in the tower location as a channel, as opposed to a conventional radio system where to channels are in your radio as a frequency. This allows for better allocation of frequencies across larger locations.
c. State Wide Radio Systems work very similar to how cell phones work, you can be anywhere in the state (that has coverage) and talk to another user in a different part of the state that is in the coverage area of a different part of the state, as long as you both are on the same talk group.
2) What is a Talk Group?
a. A Talk Group is an assigned group on the trunked radio system.
3) Why is monitoring/just listening in bad?
a. The trunked system cannot tell when a radio “just listens” and assumes that if you are on the appropriate talk group, then you need to get the broadcast message, ASAP.
b. If you are in the same coverage area as the incident you are “just listening” to then the system is using resources to broadcast to you in addition to the others that need to be using the resources.
c. If you are not in the same coverage area – then you drag the talk group across multiple tower sites to get to you. This dragging uses up 1 channel at each site until it reaches you. The route of towers it takes does not always follow a straight line to get to you. It could loop around the state depending on how the towers are tied together.
Another way to look at it is that on AWIN, the average tower has 5 channels. Due to the nature of trunking, you will lose 1 channel as the control channel. This leaves you with 4 channels to use for your communications. All it would take to cripple the average tower is 4 people, each on a different talk group trying to listen in at the same time. This is very easy to do when there is an incident and people are being curious.
The only real way to combat this is through proper radio training and proper radio discipline.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Yes, and this is why AWIN puts out the "do not drag talkgroups across the state" notice to radio users and is why you typically can't sit in south Arkansas and listen to a talkgroup assigned to somewhere in north Arkansas (though if it needed to be done, it could). Let me give an example:

If a trooper from Troop A (Little Rock area) is traveling to Jonesboro for whatever reason, when they get to Beebe they will notify their dispatcher at Troop A that they are "10-96 to Troop B" and then switch their radio to Troop B Dispatch and say "Newport I'm 10-96 your troop en route to Jonesboro". When they hit the Troop C border, they will notify Troop B Dispatch that they are 96 to Troop C and then switch to C and tell them they are in their troop.

Why is that? Because if they left their radio on Troop A Dispatch, it would 'drag' that talkgroup across all of the towers in Troop B's area and then Troop C's area and tie up valuable control and voice channels while they did it.

Here is the notice from AWIN a couple of years ago:

Dragging Talkgroups is an issue on shared radio systems like AWIN. It can negatively affect system performance. We thought it would be a good time to provide some information about dragging talkgroups.
1) Before getting into talk groups and dragging, you need to understand what a P25 Digital Trunked Radio System is.
a. P25 is the current standard for emergency service grade radio equipment. If a manufacturer makes a product and says it is P25 compliant, then It has to work with other P25 equipment regardless of manufacturer.
b. A Trunked Radio System is a one that has the frequencies in the tower location as a channel, as opposed to a conventional radio system where to channels are in your radio as a frequency. This allows for better allocation of frequencies across larger locations.
c. State Wide Radio Systems work very similar to how cell phones work, you can be anywhere in the state (that has coverage) and talk to another user in a different part of the state that is in the coverage area of a different part of the state, as long as you both are on the same talk group.
2) What is a Talk Group?
a. A Talk Group is an assigned group on the trunked radio system.
3) Why is monitoring/just listening in bad?
a. The trunked system cannot tell when a radio “just listens” and assumes that if you are on the appropriate talk group, then you need to get the broadcast message, ASAP.
b. If you are in the same coverage area as the incident you are “just listening” to then the system is using resources to broadcast to you in addition to the others that need to be using the resources.
c. If you are not in the same coverage area – then you drag the talk group across multiple tower sites to get to you. This dragging uses up 1 channel at each site until it reaches you. The route of towers it takes does not always follow a straight line to get to you. It could loop around the state depending on how the towers are tied together.
Another way to look at it is that on AWIN, the average tower has 5 channels. Due to the nature of trunking, you will lose 1 channel as the control channel. This leaves you with 4 channels to use for your communications. All it would take to cripple the average tower is 4 people, each on a different talk group trying to listen in at the same time. This is very easy to do when there is an incident and people are being curious.
The only real way to combat this is through proper radio training and proper radio discipline.
Very interesting. Thanks for the information, that's probably what's happening.

Again thank you all for your help.
 

milf

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The only real shared tgs so to speak are supposed to be regional mutual aids and trauma comms. Other than like doc that has only a very few statewide so far.
 

bubbaearle

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New TGID: 44706
TG appears to be associated with the Pulaski Co. Sheriff's Dept.
One deputy calling another deputy by last name

21:32:45, 1676, TGRP , TGID: 44706, 44706, TSYS=0784, DG, 851.562500 ARID: 7701618
21:33:04, 1676, TGRP , TGID: 44706, 44706, TSYS=0784, DG, 851.562500 ARID: 7701922
 

milf

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Bet that is one of the Car to Car/Talkarounds.... We know Pulaski has at least 3 to 5 SO TG's needing found so good job. Also need to find more of the Fire, DPW/Roads etc...
 
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