Bad AT-197/GR Antenna

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nycrich

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So I bought an AT-197/GR from Ebay. Using my Airspy with 25 ft LMR400 cable and FM notch filter. The antenna seems to be dead and not receiving. I checked resistance from the top elements to the center pin and I get continuity. Check resistance with the angled bottom rods to ground and get continuity. There is a little chain on all the bottom elements that is screwed in to the mounting post. At my location I can hear ATC ground on 270.325 ZMA and 353.600 UHF higher. The antenna just seems to be dead. I read one post that this antenna has a lightening arrestor built inside? I use the cable on another radio and it works and my Airspy works picking up those UHF frequencies with my Sirio 2000 Discone. I'm at a lost.
 

vagrant

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A lightning arrestor in that antenna would not surprise me. I have one, but did not take it apart before deploying. Perhaps purchase an inexpensive VNA and sweep it. Still, if there is an arrestor, you would need to take it apart anyways. You may have to short it if you cannot find a replacement and then just add an arrestor on the line. If you do find a replacement arrestor please update the thread. Myself and others would benefit, but after some searching all I found was some paperwork that listed the letters "NS" under lightning arrestor. I am unsure what that designation means, but several areas had that "NS" listed.

Also, take out that FM notch filter and test again to see if there is a difference. I'm lucky in that I have an airport nearby that also blasts ATIS on UHF for Mil Air jets based here which makes it easy to test things.
 

prcguy

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There should be no continuity from the connector center pin to the grounded cone radials, that indicates a big problem. There is a glass insulator at the top, can you see if the connection inside looks ok or is there any debris inside? There is a short length of Heliax type cable between the connector and the feed point, I remember taking one apart and the cable and connector are serviceable. Otherwise there is not much to go wrong electrically on that antenna.
 

nycrich

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Funny I had the same problem with a previous one I bought 10 yrs ago and never used it. There is continuity with the center pin and the top radial only which should be right. There should be continuity with the bottom radials and the ground side. At this point the only thing to do is to try and take apart as Pcrguy mentioned. Thanks for the advice.
 

nycrich

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So an update on my antenna. It appears the center pin of the AT-197/GR got pushed in further inward. This might be due to previous users not realizing this has an HN connector and forcing other connectors like an N to it. This is a common problem buying these used antennas with this problem or missing radials. I bought one 20 years ago and it was dead. Back then I did not have the troubleshooting skills and just kept the antenna in the garage.
When I use the HN to N adapter the center pins was not making contact and hence the dead antenna. When I check for continuity without the adapter everything reads good. With adapter on the center pins was not making contact. I bought an expensive adapter, they run $60-100. Adapter was checked and read good for continuity. I therefore realize the problem was the antenna.
I took the antenna apart since I had nothing to loose and the first thing was that I noticed was lots of corrosion and rust. I ordered a rust cleaner and it will arrive next day.
As per someone in one of the threads about At197/GR there is no lightening arrestor. Just getting continuity from the top radials to the center pins without the adapter, alerted me to the fact there is no lightening arrestor, but I still tore the antenna apart to clean it. From the top radial there is a very rigid large diameter coaxial RG 17A/U rated for 11000 volts that runs down to the HN connector, and a rigid tubing use to support the mast. The antenna can transmit up to 1000 watts continuous power hence the heavy rigid cable and the HN connector which is larger than an N connector.
I was able to disassemble and push the center pin outward, attached adapter and checked for continuity, and it was a go. I then used some LMR 195, about 20 ft to my Airspy and checked the two ground ATC here in WPB 270.325 low milcom band and 353.600 high milcom band and reception was about +2 dB better than my OmniX, Sirio 2000, TACO D2214 Muldipol 225-400 Mhz antenna.
 

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nycrich

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The At197/GR performs better because the radials have a bigger diameter allowing for a larger bandwidth. My other discones have solid matchstick like diameters. Next step is to try a preamplifier.
 

vagrant

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Fuuuuuudge that is some good info, comparison and fun time with photos. You answered lingering questions I had by comparing it with those other antennas, in particular the OmniX and the Taco. Also, I did not pay $60-$100 for my HN to N adapter. I think I paid around $15 on eBay. Still, when you don't want to wait...I know how that goes.

As to a preamp with that antenna...YES...I had my best results with no more than 10dB when using a long run of LMR-400. Also know that if you really want to tighten things up, Dale Parfitt makes a 225-400 MHz filter. The skirts are fine with the AT197/GR, but the filter does not hurt if you have $80 laying around. Mil-Air is my favorite, so I purchased one. Hell, that filter cost me three times more than the antenna and adapter combined.
 

Hooligan

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Hey Rich,
Just wondering how much you paid for the AT-197 eBay auction? I have one that I'm about to list on eBay. Kinda sorta don't really want to sell it, but I haven't used it in a while, so I'll list it with a "I don't really want to sell this, BUT..." minimum bid price, though I don't want the price to be unreasonable. I sold my AT-97/GR for about $150 a couple years ago.

There's one listed on eBay now -- someone painted it white, and it's missing the top, horizontal element section -- with a buy it now price of $495!
 

Hooligan

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Well then mine may be over-priced, but as I mentioned I'm OK with it not selling, and there are a couple eBayers monitoring the auction already, so we'll see what happens...

 

JSTARS03

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Well then mine may be over-priced, but as I mentioned I'm OK with it not selling, and there are a couple eBayers monitoring the auction already, so we'll see what happens...


I would buy it for a normal price
 

nycrich

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To clean the rust I bought a rust remover in a spray bottle with wire brushes from Amazon, sold separately.. Some of the rust came off , but not all. I check the elements with a multimeter and got good connectivity. I decided to buy a small N female LMR400 patch cable 1 ft, that I will cut/splice/install soldering direct to the big RG 17 A/U cable. This way I don't have to use the adapter I bought and use my preexisting cables.
 

zguy1243

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I recently bought a discone from Kreco. I asked for a tuned unit for 225-400. I had to help them figure out the math. The company has changed hands and things are not the same. The AT-197 is nearly impossible to beat. I have started to look at producing a discone with very similar spec as the AT-197 since I have access to machining now...
 

skywarrior

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I recently bought a discone from Kreco. I asked for a tuned unit for 225-400. I had to help them figure out the math. The company has changed hands and things are not the same. The AT-197 is nearly impossible to beat. I have started to look at producing a discone with very similar spec as the AT-197 since I have access to machining now...
Zguy, Please keep us informed on your progress! Although I have two original military AT-197"s, I would be very interested in another.
 

prcguy

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The diameter of the radials has nothing to do with anything except for making the antenna stronger and its the number of radials that affects its efficiency. Its not a resonant antenna and it launches a wave from the apex of the top disc and bottom cone like a V beam or horn antenna does from its feedpoint.

A perfect Discone would be made out of copper sheet metal. A lousy one might have thee top and bottom radials like the Hustler version. Most scanner types have between six and eight radials and higher end commercial versions about 12. The most I have seen is 16 and that closely emulates solid sheet metal.

The At197/GR performs better because the radials have a bigger diameter allowing for a larger bandwidth. My other discones have solid matchstick like diameters. Next step is to try a preamplifier.
 
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